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Text of the page (random words):
one might find under the us constitution whereas wp freespeech is merely a user essay the personal opinion of the editor who wrote it and has no formal status within wikipedia in any event it argues against your position 2 wikiprojects do not have members in the sense of a defined closed group of editors who have the exclusive power to set up and enforce private rules that you call info box policy wikiprojects are by design open and any editor who has an interest and wishes to consider themself to be a member is perfectly entitled to express a view whether or not they have left their name on the project page i would consider myself to be an informal member of a number of wikiprojects including that one although i typically don t bother to put my name down 3 wikiprojects are at perfect liberty to create pages of recommendations and many of them do what they are not permitted to do is to draft instructional pages that conflict with formal wikipedia policies and guidelines you may say that the wording that has now been brought into line with the wikipedia guideline was only an advice page and was therefore never in conflict however as a matter of practice certain highly active editors in this area systematically treated that wording as taking precedence over the official guidelines including immediately reverting any infobox that was added by an unsuspecting editor and enforcing a private rule set out in hidden text within articles which explicitly required editors to seek permission in advance before making certain edits michaelmaggs talk 21 18 19 june 2026 utc reply wikiprojects are not political parties there is no minority group of members to protect here you have no more right or standing to determine what the classical music wikiproject is about than any other random user what you are essentially asking is for us to affirm that a small group of people wp owns the project and that nobody else is allowed to weigh in or that their views should be discounted that sort of factionalism is utterly counter to how we work if you want to write a personal essay expressing your personal views do it in userspace if you write something in project space everyone gets to weigh in equally and no one has more voice there than anyone else the idea that there is a formal group of members of the project who get to control it is completely incorrect membership is informal and conveys no particular degree of control or influence over the project or its subpages again it feels like you are trying to turn wikiprojects into political parties do not do this i would strenuously advise you to discard that entire line of argument and anything based on it since it feels like a wp battleground approach to wikiprojects a wikiproject is a place for everyone to collaborate on improving some aspect of wikipedia not a place to create your own faction or to push for policy interpretations at odds with the community as a whole aquillion talk 04 49 21 july 2026 utc reply wikipedia a wikiproject is a group of people a group however is not everyone and what you re proposing is that a relatively distinct group of people should have no opportunity to express their group s views according to you they must speak only as individuals or not at all they cannot unite together to express their collective views they must remain separate i don t think this is a good idea there are quite a lot of pages in the project namespace that i don t think everyone should weigh in equally on for example i think that most of the wikipedia open letters and petitions contain errors and material omissions but do you think i should weigh in equally to point out that the first use of superprotect was actually used to stop a wp wheelwar that was disrupting the servers that there isn t an attorney with expertise in us non profits that would actually recommend the board reform measures that there cannot be an official statement from editors and so forth or do you think i should let those groups have their say and if i want i can have my say we ve long encouraged separation of views e g wp bluesky and wp notbluesky whatamidoing talk 05 19 21 july 2026 utc reply oh and in case it isn t clear if you tell people that they can t work together under the name of wikiproject they ll move to another location where we ll have more trouble tracking their activities anyone who s seen a school lunch room around age 12 without assigned seating knows how this works if a group of friends normally eats their lunches at table 1 and you insist that a dislike student be allowed to sit at table 1 too the original group of friends will soon find a different table to sit at leaving the unfortunate student all alone again you cannot force wp volunteers to spend time with editors whom they dislike or disagree with and if you try they may well leave the page or wikipedia entirely whatamidoing talk 05 25 21 july 2026 utc reply did i do it right edit latest comment 1 month ago 7 comments 5 people in discussion this doesn t look right talk power mac g4 cube rfc bankruptcy claims and david fuchs role modeling or lack thereof mevsherd talk 17 51 4 july 2026 utc reply hi mevsherd thanks for asking i see a couple small issues i d recommend this and the apple article claim apple was on the brink or verge of bankruptcy many sources express such opinions apple s own financial statements say the opposite should claims of imminent bankruptcy be removed the article includes the claim that apple was on the brink or verge of bankruptcy should claims of imminent bankruptcy be removed the question should be neutral move many sources express such opinions apple s own financial statements say the opposite to your comment dw31415 talk 12 31 5 july 2026 utc reply i fixed the main problem when i added the template the interface added some tags that i think weren t supposed to be there https en wikipedia org w index php title talk power_mac_g4_cube diff next oldid 1362544310 mevsherd talk 16 13 5 july 2026 utc reply i see no tags red rose64 talk 19 20 5 july 2026 utc reply i don t think that many sources express such opinions apple s own financial statements say the opposite an even handed description of what two sets of sources say is non neutral whatamidoing talk 00 43 9 july 2026 utc reply i don t think it s even handed at all note how it says article claims that apple is on the brink or verge of bankruptcy the latter reads like scare quotes to me and that the sources saying it are just such opinions while apple s financial statements are apple s own financial statements i wouldn t usually let a juxtaposition like this slide in article space unless secondary sources were very clearly skeptical and that s not the case here it s an editor arguing for using primary sources vs secondary sources with the secondary sources reduce to opinions at a glance they are not while apple s statements are apple s own financial statements a phrasing that clearly privileges them as accurate especially compared to the mere opinions in the prior sentence it also depends on what the actual dispute is which is why wp rfcbefore is important it is possible that some editors might reasonably disagree on what apple s financial statements say financial statements are after all a primary source which means we cannot perform any sort of interpretation or analysis on it aquillion talk 04 57 21 july 2026 utc reply i assumed that the quoted words were actual direct quotations rfcbefore is important because it s a list of ways to avoid having an rfc at all whatamidoing talk 06 17 21 july 2026 utc reply llm rfc problems edit latest comment 7 days ago 4 comments 2 people in discussion the op at talk antioch international movement of churches rfc content and phrasing for life groups and impact on local community appears to be using llm both for the proposed changes and for the discussions in the rfc i m involved in the content dispute and do not plan to take any actions myself this rfc feels hopelessly compromised since the proposed text would violate wp nollm and multiple content policies as demonstrated line by line in the rfc but perhaps someone would have an ideas about how to salvage it or failing that how to resolve this dispute whatamidoing talk 20 35 17 july 2026 utc reply i can just close it as needing to be workshopped especially as op was indeffed user bluethricecreamman talk contribs 18 35 21 july 2026 utc reply actually after seeing two consecutive rfcs fail at talk reform uk due to extensive llm issues do we want any specific guidance for that it may help to close such rfcs especially for involved editors user bluethricecreamman talk contribs 19 45 13 august 2026 utc reply if people do not follow wikipedia talk page guidelines llm generated when writing the opening statement of an rfc what makes you think that repeating the same prohibition here would change their behavior whatamidoing talk 20 07 13 august 2026 utc reply rfc about tags edit latest comment 1 month ago 13 comments 5 people in discussion i am trying to deal with a dispute at the dispute resolution noticeboard which seems to be mostly a dispute about a multiple issues tag on an article and the tags within the tag and there has been discussion of an rfc i have said that i am ready to help prepare an rfc about changes to the article content that might resolve the issues that are flagged by the tags however my opinion is that either moderated discussion about tags or an rfc about tags will be a waste of community time that would be better spent discussing whether or how to improve the article does anyone else either agree that an rfc about tagging will be a waste of community time or think that such an rfc may be helpful does anyone have any other ideas about how tagging disputes should be addressed robert mcclenon talk 03 46 19 july 2026 utc reply fights over which tags belong in an article should ideally be converted into discussions over how to fix the problems so that tags are not needed whatamidoing talk 05 20 19 july 2026 utc reply i assume that you user whatamidoing are agreeing with what i said above that tagging disputes would be better spent improving the article robert mcclenon talk 07 30 20 july 2026 utc reply yes whatamidoing talk 19 12 20 july 2026 utc reply i think that a tag is evidence that the article is disputed and generally should remain unless the dispute is resolved some disputes are utterly intractable and that makes semi permanent tags ok most controversial articles have tags for quite a lot of the time and some have very old tags options for those desperate to remove it are a compromise til the other side is happy or b live with the tag tags aren t a big deal and don t usually justify the rather high cost cost of a community wide rfc in themselves although if the underlying dispute is causing other strife then one might be necessary s marshall t c 17 16 19 july 2026 utc reply in this case the maintenance tags appear to represent the view that an article about the assassination of a modern head of state doesn t deserve such a detailed article we all have our own ideas about what an ideal article would sound like but i think in this case an rfc can easily settle the question of whether assassination of park chung hee contains too much detail and too many quotations for reference the disputed article is just 60 the length of the fa assassination of john f kennedy it contains 11 short direct quotations compared to about 75 quotations in the jfk article there are a couple of other fas about 20th century assassinations of heads of state to compare against including arrest and assassination of ngo dinh diem assassination of talaat pasha and assassination of william mckinley at a glance i suspect that they are all longer more detailed and contain more quotations than the disputed article whatamidoing talk 19 15 19 july 2026 utc reply it is true that the immediate issue is about that article however sometimes i will ask about a type of situation rather than a specific dispute because i am looking for principles that will also apply to other disputes of the same type i have dealt with other tagging disputes in the past and will deal with other tagging disputes in the future robert mcclenon talk 07 30 20 july 2026 utc reply i agree with whatamidoing and s marshal when trying to resolve a tagging dispute see if you can change the focus of the conversation away from arguing about the tag itself and towards discussing how to improve the article so the tag is no longer needed blueboar talk 11 37 20 july 2026 utc reply or discussing whether any improvement is called for whether there is any way to satisfy whoever put the tag there that wouldn t degrade the article wouldn t that usually be the issue when there is a dispute over whether a maintenance tag belongs there do people actually want to discuss the tag usage per se separate from whether the maintenance indicated is needed bryan henderson giraffedata talk 18 35 20 july 2026 utc reply i ve seen a few disputes over the tag usage per se that usually looks like someone saying yes the article has a problem with ____ but we don t need an ugly tag to say so this isn t even always unreasonable a short stub doesn t need template expand section or template lead too short however the dispute is almost always over whether the article has the stated problem alice adds a ___ tag because she thinks the article has a problem with ____ and bob removes it because he thinks the article does not have a problem with ____ the pov family of templates also has a problem with people using them as a way to warn the reader that they disapprove of the current state of the article there are special badge of shame rules for those outlined on the template s doc pages this problem is also addressed towards the end of wikipedia no disclaimers whatamidoing talk 19 20 20 july 2026 utc reply i agree with waid that it s almost always over whether the article has the stated problem if there is a good faith genuine dispute about whether the article is pov or too long or just badly written a disputed tag is appropriate s marshall t c 20 28 20 july 2026 utc reply and that is really the discussion over how or if the article can be fixed that some here have said is preferable to a discussion about the tag itself it doesn t matter if some people think the article has the problem and others don t if it can be fixed to satisfy everyone but i realize my earlier comment overlooks the most common case where people would rather discuss whether the tag should be there than how or if the article could be changed to eliminate the need for the tag nobody s willing to do the work a discussion of how to fix an article so nobody feels the need for a tag is moot if nobody has time to fix it many times these tags represent a request for significant work that s why an editor put the tag there instead of just fixing the article preceding unsigned 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