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rchinsky in topic java runtime environment page redirect to the section with the same name misleads the readers this is the talk page for discussing improvements to the java software platform article this is not a forum for general discussion of the subject of the article add new text under old text new to wikipedia welcome learn to edit get help start a new topic assume good faith be polite and avoid personal attacks be welcoming to newcomers seek dispute resolution if needed article policies neutral point of view no original research verifiability find sources google books news scholar free images wp refs fens jstor twl this article is rated b class on wikipedia s content assessment scale it is of interest to the following wikiprojects computing software high importance this article is within the scope of wikiproject computing a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of computers computing and information technology on wikipedia if you would like to participate please visit the project page where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks computing wikipedia wikiproject computing template wikiproject computing computing high this article has been rated as high importance on the project s importance scale this article is supported by wikiproject software java top importance this article is within the scope of wikiproject java a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of java on wikipedia if you would like to participate please visit the project page where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks java wikipedia wikiproject java template wikiproject java java top this article has been rated as top importance on the project s importance scale spoken wikipedia this article is within the scope of wikiproject spoken wikipedia a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of spoken articles on wikipedia if you would like to participate please visit the project page where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks spoken wikipedia wikipedia wikiproject spoken wikipedia template wikiproject spoken wikipedia spoken wikipedia tip anchors are case sensitive in most browsers this article contains broken links to one or more target anchors ask com ask toolbar controversy ask com toolbar the anchor ask toolbar controversy has been deleted by other users before the anchors may have been removed renamed or are no longer valid please fix them by following the link above checking the page history of the target pages or updating the links remove this template after the problem is fixed report an error jre 6 0 update 24 edit latest comment 18 years ago 1 comment 1 person in discussion i updated the latest release in the box i m using the last modified date of the release notes page because i can t find a more accurate release date if anyone knows or knows how to find out please change it and if they wouldn t mind posting here so i can see how to figure it out as i don t doubt that i probably just missed something obvious thanks anarchyelmo 16 03 3 november 2007 utc reply quality is appalling edit latest comment 20 years ago 1 comment 1 person in discussion the article s quality is appalling sentences and language use are pretty bad this will need some work npovmachine 16 03 19 august 2006 utc reply programming language edit latest comment 20 years ago 2 comments 2 people in discussion i felt it necessary to significantly modify the language section of this page to address perceived bias and better reflect the more thorough java programming language article in addition i may have inadvertantly inserted my own bias by promulgating the less pure meme please feel free to do what you will gortsack 20 47 17 april 2006 utc reply you edits were on target you just didn t go far enough i worked on it some more but it was pretty poorly worded compared to the java programming language article that most of this content was taken from doug bell talk contrib 18 58 19 april 2006 utc reply problems edit latest comment 19 years ago 7 comments 7 people in discussion i disagree very strongly with the following statement made in the article standalone applications have fallen out of favor as computing has switched to a web based model new programming techniques have produced powerful web applications the advent of portable drives knoppix etc contradicts the preceding statement the demand for small self contained and portable binaries is higher than ever take for example utorrent the following paragraph contradicts itself and my own personal experience is that 1 5 and 5 0 apps don t get along with just one jre so i purposefully avoid all java to preclude 500mb of jre because of incompatibilities between different versions of the jre rather than rely on pre installed jres many applications install their own jres in order to function predictably java applets can detect which version of java they are running on and the high level of compatibility between different versions of java ensures it is a simple matter to support older versions of java whilst making use of the additional features of later versions preceding unsigned comment added by ieopo talk contribs 16 13 5 june 2006 utc reply i ve found a high level of compatibility between java versions to the extent that the same byte code runs on all versions see clesh for one example needs broadband also services like google mail and in fact google itself have become more popular and these are web based applications stephen b streater 22 01 5 june 2006 utc reply why isnt ooo being mentioned as a good example for a nice java desktop app preceding unsigned comment added by 84 58 129 210 talk 13 55 5 july 2006 utc reply because it isn t one its a c app that happens to use a tiny bit of java for its scripting functionaility plugwash 23 14 7 july 2006 utc reply i have suffered from the jre incompatibility problems referred to above but not being an expert in java i ve added cleanup tags to two sections and added fact tags to some statements in fact some compatibilty claims in the article are directly counter to my experiences but i guess that would be or wikianon 11 04 22 september 2006 utc reply i do not understand what is meant by the criticism section when it states that java necessarily uses a user s ip address to allow java to function i ve used java for years and don t know what this means there is a bug opened on java 1 5 0 through 1 5 9 i believe where calling some network functions tried doing a reverse dns lookup on the remote ip address but this was a bug that has been since fixed not a feature of the langauage there are plenty of valid critiques of java i just don t think this is one of them factually if not clarified this section should be removed dov wasserman 19 19 28 march 2007 utc reply i put a citation needed after the sentence and i agree that it seems to be original research and maybe false i propose to delete the entire criticism section it contains only this sentence if nobody is able to cite sources in a few days plus even if there are sources i think the sentence should be clarified put in the general criticism of java article the sentence says exactly the contrary as a lot of sources always say java is generally a secure language hervegirod 21 57 28 march 2007 utc reply don t merge edit latest comment 20 years ago 1 comment 1 person in discussion we tried having the top level java article and the programming language as one article and it was frankly a mess with the java as a whole people constantly fighting over what the article should contain with the java programming language people the preceding unsigned comment was added by plugwash talk contribs 23 21 15 september 2006 utc i agree so i m removing the merge tags someone can always readd the merge and include reasons that might gain consensus in the two talk pages wikianon 11 22 22 september 2006 utc reply version history edit latest comment 19 years ago 2 comments 1 person in discussion i think that this article is too long why not split the version history part in another article to link with this one or at least keep only the beginning of the chapter in this article and put the detailed j2se 1 0 to 7 0 to the new article hervegirod 09 33 28 october 2006 utc reply no answer i took it as a yes hervegirod 11 44 4 november 2006 utc reply gpl edit latest comment 19 years ago 4 comments 2 people in discussion is there actually any official sun download marked up as gpl yet if not then imo we are jumping the gun saying that java has been made gpl plugwash 00 54 16 november 2006 utc reply ok i just took a look at https openjdk dev java net and it seems that the vm and the compiler are already gpl but the class libraries which are arguablly the most valuable part of java to have under a free software license are not going to be until early 2007 plugwash 00 57 16 november 2006 utc reply javac and hotspot are gpl now and they really are valuable pieces of software think of the speed of sun s vm compared to other free vms for example hervegirod 12 02 25 december 2006 utc reply javac is very low value the java language to java bytecode conversion isn t that complex and there are perfectly acceptable free compilers out there hotspot is more valuable but i d imagine it has a fairly strong dependency on suns class libraries which are still non free if and when we see a buildable jre made up of opensource software then that will be a very significant moment but what we have been given so far is practically worthless on its own plugwash 23 12 5 april 2007 utc reply licensing edit latest comment 19 years ago 1 comment 1 person in discussion there really shouldn t be a past and present division about free software licensing of sun s jre or class library because it still isn t free and according to sun it won t be free until at least march even if when sun java becomes free the before and after sections would probably not be useful for such a small set of information also in the english language saying java wasn t free software past tense can imply that it has changed from non free to free which wouldn t be accurate if it wasn t free software and it still isn t then you would use a current tense or if you must refer to the past has never been would be clear the licensing section also needed some major cleanups in a variety of ways i ve tried to make the section more concise and clear without removing anything important but if i did remove something important please re add it rather than reverting the entire edit 64 59 144 21 02 05 21 december 2006 utc reply desktop use edit latest comment 18 years ago 2 comments 2 people in discussion two of the claims are not fact based and maybe not relevant tools used to develop graphical java applications are fragmented and none is as popular as microsoft s visual studio suite for developing windows applications i never seen any comment about this on the web especially to explain why java is not widely used on the desktop this also appears to be a very strange claim that microsoft s visual studio suite is more widely used for developing graphical java applications than eclipse i suspect 5 years ago this may have been close to the truth but i would be amazed if it is true now netbeans for teh win in all seriousness though there are plenty of excellent free solutions out there such as netbeans and eclipse without fighting over which of the free solutions is better netbeans would win that hands down anyway it is redicilous to assume that esp without statistical evidence a solution that costs tons of money and is primarily meant for net c would be the ideal of preferred development means for java my apologies for being anonymous btw p there are multiple versions of the jre which can introduce compatibility issues for java applications installed on a system this is the same with any other language platform as c python perl even flash and as java is for the most part upward compatible especially at the binary level i think it is not a problem also i never seen this explained as a weakness of java which could reduce its desktop adoption except on wikipedia the claims seen on the net are java memory usage java mostly don t follow platform gui guidelines extra step to deploy java based apps even if it is the same with a lot of other frameworks and java being non free in the past hervegirod 12 34 27 may 2007 utc reply isn t this a reference to the old conflict between the microsoft java vm and the sun java vm in that case there really were incompatibilities which imho was a pretty shitty thing to do on ms s part however the lawyers settled this and now sun s vm is considered the real one and others that are developed open source ones for example are modelled after the sun one for compatibility especially since the vast amount of platforms on which a java vm is supported this seems to be a thing of the past just my 2 cents preceding unsigned comment added by 80 61 108 218 talk 14 05 5 march 2008 utc reply don t forget the rest of the world edit latest comment 19 years ago 1 comment 1 person in discussion if this article is going to talk about the language api that sun created then it should mention each of the implementations java is a successful technology and has fostered a community and a market of it s own the current text makes it look like java is something that only sun is interested in and no one else wants to feels a need to or sees a reason to develop this technology which obviously isn t true if on the other hand this article is to be limited to sun s java implementations then it should be renamed as such and the discussion of the general java technology which sun develops defines should be moved to an article that is broad and inclusive i think the broad approach is better aiming to make this a top level article for java rather than limiting it to the overlap of the technology and the company to broaden this info can be found on free java implementations about gnu classpath gnu compiler for java kaffe apache harmony etc there is also blackdown java and probably others gronky 15 30 25 june 2007 utc reply merge edit latest comment 19 years ago 1 comment 1 person in discussion convention is that merge discussion takes place on the mergee but adding a note here as a heads yp these articles cover the same ground and regardless of the final title there should only be one of them chris cunningham 10 17 11 september 2007 utc reply requested move edit latest comment 18 years ago 9 comments 6 people in discussion i propose that this article be moved over the redirect java platform the current disambig parenthetical sun is self defeating in that it is highly ambiguous as it could be interpreted as being the name of a star java platform is the official proper name of the subject being addressed in the article and will not require disambiguation for the foreseeable future if platform is too specific other candidates might be java software or java computing in any case s...
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