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ly should not have blocked the user as the policy clearly states that blocking should not be used in such situations victuallers unblock was absolutely correct i don t think wp involved is relevant in this case as the block was indisputably wrong under any reading of the situation prioryman talk 14 23 28 april 2012 utc for context this is evidently the account for monmouth museum victuallers as part of his wmuk role is heavily involved in monmouthpedia a project to wait for it wait for it more closely link monmouth and its notable elements with wikipedia the project is funded by wmuk which victuallers was until recently the chair of the project is according to the notes from wmuk s last board meeting being led up or closely participated in by victuallers in his current role as one of wmuk s directors now either victuallers coincidentally happened to stop by and notice this or he s using his admin tools while as involved in a situation as you can get without sleeping with the offending party whether the block was correct or not that decision is not one victuallers should be making ironholds talk 14 26 28 april 2012 utc from what i can tell the fullness of the wp orgname policy was ignored when that block was issued i took a look at a discussion taking place on that and the policy makes a very clear statement users who adopt such usernames but who are not editing problematically in related articles should not be blocked instead they should be gently encouraged to change their username so actually blocking immediately in such a case is against policy which reminds admins to resort to their interpersonal skillset instead of their tool kit avanu talk 14 42 28 april 2012 utc are you disputing that the blocking admin was wrong or suggesting that the user should not have been unblocked the important thing is that the right outcome has been reached complaining about victuallers role seems frankly too much like process wankery to me prioryman talk 15 47 28 april 2012 utc the right outcome is a non role username the fact that the policeman let his son out of jail isn t at all concerning the fact that the same policeman says he ll let his son break the law flagrantly again isn t at all concerning talk bwilkins track 16 05 28 april 2012 utc bwilkins you come across as super upset about this you said the unblocking admin trashed the other admin but when i looked at his comment in the diff it seemed polite policy on this is pretty clear don t block unless they re making problematic edits it isn t breaking the law if you re following the detail and minutiae of the law i would say even the spirit of the law is being followed by not immediately or ever blocking someone in these circumstances why does this matter so much that it needs to become a big deal avanu talk 16 17 28 april 2012 utc the block was rude and stupid and a breach of policy the blocking admin should simply have approached the editor human to human and explained the situation if the user is a reasonable person as most are they ll see the sense of individual account names and it ll all be sorted in a gentle friendly way unblocking might have gone a small way towards ameliorating the offense caused by the blocking admin s thoughtlessness i m sure the user will be more than happy to rename i m not implying the blocking admin is rude and stupid i don t know them it is a rude and stupid norm among a segment of the admin corps anthonyhcole talk 16 23 28 april 2012 utc regardless of how un justified the block may have been the involvement user victuallers has with both parties wmuk and monmouth museum as outlined nicely by user ironholds above should ve precluded him from administrative action here not to mention wheel warring is never good to begin with equazcion talk 16 31 28 apr 2012 utc my impression is that wp wheel war covers the third administrative action after the first has been reverted otherwise there are some other cases where this has been broken wnt talk 16 35 28 april 2012 utc i d rather see people break a rule in favor of wiki civility though that said looks like everyone messed up a little so if everyone can just say sorry i don t know why i m not perfect like jimbo and pledge to do better maybe we can move on avanu talk 16 40 28 april 2012 utc edit conflict you re right though wheel warring was only the not to mention part of my comment this admin was far too close to the situation to have acted here which should be fairly obvious and should have been especially obvious to him equazcion talk 16 43 28 apr 2012 utc in looking over the full username policy i just realized that if i created my username today current wp orgname policy would forbid it but i m also glad to see there is a grandfather clause in the policy that means i should be fine avanu talk 17 01 28 april 2012 utc there is an rfc in progress about the username so i m not sure there s much point in continuing discussion here but it should probably be noted that victuallers stepped down as the chair of wmuk because i m becoming a consultant and as i m proposing to take monmouthshire county council wikimedia uk partners for the monmouthpedia project as a client as noted here delicious carbuncle talk 17 11 28 april 2012 utc alright this is now getting to the point of passing hanlon s razor i m going to directly ask that he voluntarily restrict himself in future if not an i is the way ironholds talk 17 16 28 april 2012 utc the problem with the rfc is that its already off track you have people saying it violates wp role but before you can determine that with certainty you need to at least ask the editor you also have people saying it was handled poorly and mistakes were made i would just suggest that we learn from this that civility pays off and taking an extra little time to communicate actually saves a lot of time avanu talk 17 28 28 april 2012 utc what exactly is the purpose of wp orgname i know we only want one person using an account and we can make sure the user understands that but besides that one thing what s the issue silver seren c 19 19 28 april 2012 utc as someone who comes to this site in order to add content to wikipedia and tries to pretend that it is not yasn yet another social network i found the following to be rather illuminating http en wikipedia org w index php title wikipedia administrators 27_noticeboard oldid 489627379 orange_mike ottawahitech talk 00 37 29 april 2012 utc i m thoroughly disappointed in the way this process worked see rfc for monmouthmuseumwales it had no signs of an acknowledgement of policy as written neither the letter nor the spirit of policy was followed the policy is not ambiguous yet the admins chose to ignore it and the closing admin s comment at least in my opinion shows a complete lack of acknowledgement or interest in reviewing the text of policy and merely saying if you don t like the policy get it changed yet policy as written doesn t support the outcome that the closer supports what change are editors supposed to bring about if the policy already is clear but is simply being ignored i m quite bemused befuddled and perplexed avanu talk 02 31 29 april 2012 utc as i pick through the two policies very closely i see now that this is a very fine point where it could be interpreted either way i ve made some small refinements to hopefully better clarify the specific distinctions and exceptions and added a minor suggestion that should improve civility slightly the problem really revolves around the relationship between socking behavior and what is implied by a username and a user via their userpage i hope admins will work to recognize the difference between a legitimate new user and ignorance of policy versus a problem user and act accordingly no one ought to be blocked for a simple misunderstanding especially if no harm is done avanu talk 03 23 29 april 2012 utc unfortunately it happens a lot admins will often block a user that violates orgname and the only information they get about it is what s int he blocking template i do wonder how many productive new users we lose because of these bitey actions silver seren c 07 27 29 april 2012 utc i agree i was instrumental in getting xeno to change wp uaai in february 2011 to say that accounts using organisation names should not be blocked on sight if they edit productively but that admins should talk to people first that s still what wp uaai says today so it s very disappointing to see that this still goes on especially if the person at the receiving end is someone on a project like monmouthpedia wikipedia is shooting itself in the foot personally i see no problem with a company name account where the user identifies themselves with their real name on the user page e g this account is operated by kevin smith the wikipedian in residence at organisation x to believe that this would somehow provide less accountability than having an account named user starwarrior editing from a dynamic ip is absurd j n 466 13 29 29 april 2012 utc the one problem i can picture with an orgname as i alluded above is that sometimes there are bitter disagreements with employees or between those in charge of an organization with small nonprofits especially you can end up in a situation where there were three people in charge and now two say the third is no longer welcome the third claims to be the true representative of the organization and now they re racing to lock the offices and or remove the contents possibly a trademark lawsuit over the entity s url and even the wikipedia username could figure into it wnt talk 14 21 29 april 2012 utc that could easily be addressed by demanding that there should only be one person operating such an account it s a demand we make for all other accounts no one is suggesting it should be lifted for these types of account j n 466 18 27 29 april 2012 utc actually no that doesn t solve the problem you d still have one ex employee passing himself off as the organization the others complaining and wikipedia potentially trying to decide who is really right in an issue that s none of our business of course we _could_ decide to allow users to simply claim names without checking in any case e g user kentucky fried chicken and ignore any complaints by the company yet somehow i have a feeling that they could make themselves obnoxious about something like that wnt talk 19 30 29 april 2012 utc an employee leaving would hand the account over to their successor who updates the user page and changes the account password j n 466 08 46 30 april 2012 utc indeed unless they don t in which case we have trouble we also have a sort of trouble for that matter if he does hand over the password when he goes on vacation when he calls in sick when he s out to lunch and it turns into a pure role account which is frowned upon by existing policy wnt talk 16 55 30 april 2012 utc it would be absurd to say that there was less accountability perhaps that s why no one is suggesting that this account is operated by kevin smith the wikipedian in residence at organisation x type accounts have the accountability problems inherent in role accounts but is accountability anything to do with promotional usernames the concern about promotional usernames is that they are promoting something external on the project ϣere spiel chequers 15 12 29 april 2012 utc these accounts typically only edit articles about themselves and policy could restrict them to that j n 466 18 27 29 april 2012 utc our username policies have for a long time now been inconsistent and are enforced in a seemingly random fashion there s really no security for a newbie to know if his name is okay even if he does read all the policies and guidelines just look at wp corpname unambiguous use of a name or url of a company group or product as a username is generally not permitted directly followed by users who adopt such usernames but who are not editing problematically in related articles should not be blocked instead they should be gently encouraged to change their username generally not permitted is wikipedia speak for has to be blocked immediately without any exception ever just read some comments from some admins above so the policy is directly contradicting itself right there of course then the policy says blocking should be a last resort not a first step another thing some admins simply ignore looks like that part was just recently added how on earth do we expect people trying to do the right thing to find an acceptable user name under these conditions conti 09 47 30 april 2012 utc i would love to see you diagram the possible workflow keeping in mind that the sheer majority of people behind such usernames are here to promote their entity based on my regular interactions with them talk bwilkins track 10 55 30 april 2012 utc there s no point in even trying as long as the policy directly contradicts itself either we immediately block every corporation username and tell them to change it or we ask them nicely without blocking them first if one half of the admins do the one thing and the other half does the other sometimes at the same time while both cite different parts of the policy for their actions then something is quite wrong with the policy isn t it conti 11 10 30 april 2012 utc or somethings quite wrong with the admin corp and they need to fix that or both for example do the admins undergo any sort of continuing education type requirements cops lawyers teachers accountants etc all go back to classes occasionally to refresh their outlook or knowledge do admins do this or do we expect them to maintain their sunny disposition and just learn on the job classes like maintaining civility new policy developments dealing with new users dealing with other administrators you name it too much bureaucracy too many admins to do this avanu talk 15 51 30 april 2012 utc punishing competence a sample of some friendly and hopeful glam people who are trying to help our movement sometimes they even get paid a small amount of money for the outreach work they love try to be nice back please i feel i ought to say something about my personal concerns with how some sysop folks have used this policy as a block hammer we have some truly lovely well intentioned people in our glam communities who are eager to support our movement by working with their institutions both as unpaid volunteers or paid professionals over the last year i have talked with some who have had bad experiences on wikipedia and commons after they get slapped back by administrators and immediately feel guilty that they have broken the rules and appear like a commercial spammer i would really like our friends who work within the glam sector to feel supported and happy to experiment and contribute as the highly valued expert editors they ought to be seen as the fact that even someone with such a great track record as victuallers talk contribs logs block log has been immediately portrayed as a paid editor with some sort of nefarious s...
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