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Join #indieweb discussions via Discord, Slack, web chat, or IRC, (they are all bridged!) with focused channels for developers, events, meta topics, and WordPress — please keep chats brief and relevant to the IndieWeb community across all indieweb chat channels.;
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Text of the page (random words):
or are intimidated by the sometimes very deep and complex dev plumbing conversations should we create a new channel that is focused primarily on entry level web makers for the curious and tinkerers who may be comfortable editing and uploading static html css files and maybe even using github static pages to publish them but are not interested in deep discussions of specifications protocols plumbing server configuration etc idea by capjamesg roughly reworded by tantek çelik examples of other communities that appeal to html css web designers developers may be useful sources for naming considerations frontend horse web making naming ideas for names of such a channel frontend 1 al abut i d vote for either indieweb frontend or the more streamlined frontend compared to the options above 0 tantek çelik there are other resources slacks etc for generic frontend web discussions and a global channel named frontend would imply that it is aiming for all of that which either loses or dilutes the indieweb focus 1 0 1 add yourself here see this for more details indieweb beginner 1 capjamesg this should be a channel to discuss your personal website and making it beginner implies this channel isn t for people who are more advanced and have questions about html css etc a category in which i certainly fall d 1 murray i feel like this is what the indieweb channel should strive to be otherwise this feels like the first channel to go to if you re new 1 joão pesce not narrow enough i think beginners should be able to participate on the indie web without being concerned about html css like using a platform pre built theme 1 aaron parecki agreed with the above comments 1 tantek çelik it s not beginner and we should always work to make main indieweb beginner friendly 1 0 1 add yourself here see this for more details indieweb frontend 0 tantek çelik i like this overall and definitely like it better than a bunch of of the other longer wordier options like html css js or web dev certainly better than beginner it s ok but changed my mind to prefer maker description should include html aria mf2 css svg at least with js for progressive enhancement perhaps 1 al abut i particularly love the word frontend it s sort of implicitly newbie friendly by focusing on the best entry path to making websites plain html is such a refreshingly back to basics type of tech yet it also leaves a lot of head room to grow from that foundation in fact i think the word frontend is strong enough to stand on its own as a channel name without a prefix that muddies the waters like indieweb or dev 1 joe crawford i think the indieweb prefix sets the stage that the things intended are with an indieweb focus and i think frontend is encompassing enough to address more than html and css which after all are incredibly rich technologies which pull in images video scripting mobile accessibility and all the rest 1 0 1 add yourself here see this for more details indieweb html css js 0 capjamesg nb there are other topics that are not html css js that someone may want to discuss my dns isn t working my site isn t loading properly choosing colour schemes for one s website layout principles like spacing etc 0 murray feels too technical of a name but i do think the simplicity has merit i also think anything css automatically covers things like spacing layout colour schemes but agree that this may not be clear 1 joão pesce might discourage people to ask some topics that are not html css js related but should be discussed 0 aaron parecki seems too specific 1 tantek çelik similar criticisms too long could should also include aria mf2 svg 1 0 1 add yourself here see this for more details indieweb maker 1 capjamesg sounds approachable and empowering 0 murray i like it but would expect it to be more about content creation artistic outputs e g writing filming photography etc 1 joão pesce sounds fun and not too technical but i tend to associate maker with maker culture i e physical things maybe web maker might also address murray s concerns 0 aaron parecki i think this is too associated with maker culture as mentioned above 1 tantek çelik agree with james this is approachable and inviting and i think some overlap with maker culture is ok i also think maker is a more inclusive than frontend on both ends for folks who may consider themselves makers but not necesarily a frontend coder and for folks that may split their making across frontend and a little backend e g tweak their cms or static site generator and want to chat about the latter 1 al abut i love the intention of this but maker is one of those vague overarching words that strikes me the same way that creator does i m constantly having to decode it to depending on the context of the platform or user type it can mean filmmaker writer full time marketer of their own personal brand etc and none of those necessarily imply the newbie friendliness or focus on frontend tech that i think can be so valuable 1 0 1 add yourself here see this for more details indieweb web dev 1 murray i like that this keeps things broad enough but also uses a term many people are familiar with doesn t require technical knowledge terms bonus that it mirrors the existing dev channel but perhaps too closely could be web development 0 joão pesce sounds a little bit too technical to me dev feels like a job making personal web sites should feel more like painting to me 1 aaron parecki this is just going to be confusing since in irc it would be indieweb web dev vs indieweb dev and then in slack discord it would be web dev vs dev and that doesn t really tell me what the difference is 1 tantek çelik also confusing web dev is vague and means different things to different people 1 0 1 add yourself here see this for more details tech help 1 cupparex i think this name is clear and would work well for beginners and others who are intimidated by deep dev discussions often had in the dev channel 1 0 1 add yourself here see this for more details other new channels other new channel proposals some as alternatives to each other or above proposals indiekit ricardo mendes propose indiekit channel to have a dedicated place to talk about indiekit adoption deployment development thoughts opinions 1 0 1 with reasons 1 ricardo mendes proposer 0 tantek çelik i don t use indiekit myself however i do support creating places for high volume discussion of specific projects s dev topics e g we have wordpress for this otoh we also have withknown which should be retired due to inactivity unclear if there is so much discussion of indiekit that it needs its own channel beyond dev 1 twinadam i use indiekit but i think extended discussions on tool specific bugs issues ideas are more appropriate for github for real time thoughts and short discussions in chat we risk isolating cool ideas and input from other indieweb users by splitting into channels based on tooling 0 anthony ciccarello i use indiekit and am slightly favorable because it s nice to hear what others are doing but i m hesitant for the reasons given by twinadam i m not sure that there s enough volume and would also encourage using the github discussions and issues for non realtime questions 1 naty s i m an indiekit user and have tried using the discussions section on github but there s no activity response there usually issues are also low activity i would appreciate if there is a place where indiekit specific topics questions can be discussed because most of the time the things i want to ask are specific to indiekit e g node js or plugin config which is not that related to indieweb per se and i feel like dev is not the right place the ask 1 0 1 add yourself here see this for more details protocols split from dev alternate proposal move all protocol chat to a new channel called indieweb protocols and use indieweb dev for developer chat protocols specific naming indieweb protocols capjamesg 1 qubyte in slack sounds like a good idea aaron parecki 1 paul robert lloyd 1 1 tantek çelik too much community labor to actually get indieweb dev folks to move to indieweb protocols as evidence by existing folks some here on the page themselves having difficulty moving from indieweb to indieweb dev more here https chat indieweb org meta 2024 03 30 t1711813588098200 also protocols is too narrow it does not include all building blocks standards we also have formats we have discovery algorithms etc this is poor framing and doesn t actually address a real problem cluster of conversations that needs a separate channel it s already hard enough for folks to know when they should use indieweb dev vs microformats and that s an existing similar split 0 5 gregor morrill i ve not found the discussions in dev overwhelming distracting enough to split off personally also concerned about the extra cognitive load tantek mentioned where does this go 1 ryan barrett agreed w tantek too much overlap not clearly distinct enough to warrant the fragmentation 1 0 1 add yourself here see this for more details questions how would we differentiate this from the current indieweb dev channel should we split category jargon into beginner advanced jargon to have loqi nudge people to the appropriate channel server split from dev alternate proposal move all server related chat to a new channel called indiweb server and use indieweb dev for typical default client side developer chat server specific naming indieweb server 0 tantek çelik i like this much better than protocols because i think it gets more to the heart of what are differences of what people not want to talk about in dev however i would still prefer to try starting with frontend first see above which be enough for dev to default to server related talk and it will be much easier to have new html aria mf2 css svg folks join a frontend channel than it will be to nudge server conversations out of dev and into server same burden as protocol noted above i would also be ok with a different label like sysadmin or anything that indicates that the topic is more centered on server side or administrative topics rather than the development of sites does this run the risk of becoming an admin tax channel 0 5 gregor morrill i ve not found the discussions in dev overwhelming distracting enough to split off personally also concerned about the extra cognitive load tantek mentioned where does this go 1 0 1 add yourself here see this for more details questions does server imply sysadmin link sharing quite often folks drop links into various channels that are on topic for that channel yet with either no context connection to their indieweb relevance or only a few words of context in essence leaving it up to the labor of everyone else in the channel to figure out why is this relevant here which can be a drain exception if a related link is mentioned in the context of adding it to a wiki page e g using the loqi chat command then that provides direct context the specific wiki page for further discussion this can be good sharing new things that are indieweb related and yet can also have the downside of interrupting an actual direct conversation between other channel participants or maybe worse for some folks be a distraction that takes them to a social media website or down some other rabbithole instead of the conversation in chat or working personal site projects while we have the random channel for sharing random links and random chatter just as we have the stream channel for the stream of posts from folks in the community and mentions of indieweb topics on social media it may be useful to encourage use of a separate channel for such low effort link sharing i have seen at least one other slack community use a linkdump channel for this sort of thing to keep a higher signal of actual discussion in other channels while providing an outlet for folks to drop related links without having to think too much about what to say about them this channel would be logged in our chat logs similar to stream yet different from stream in that the links posted in this channel would be 100 human curated specifically for the channel none of it from another context advantages make it easier to figure out which channel should i share this link in without have to figure out if it is dev specific or more broadly indieweb applicable provide a human curated informal reading list of sorts that s broader more casual than indienews which implies elevation to being broadcast in the weekly newsletter i e this channel would be sharing links without spamming the newsletter of course someone else may decide to elevate any links shared here but that would be a separate explicit action reduce non sequitor noise in discussion channels reduce interruptions of actual in chat discussions reduce distractions for folks that are easily distracted by links and who could opt out of this channel community 1 ryan barrett 1 0 1 add yourself here see this for more details link sharing naming possible names and thoughts indieweb links 1 tantek çelik proposer communicates exactly what its for what to expect if you re in the channel and what to share 0 aaron parecki i am not sold on the need for this channel but this is my preferred name a lighter weight option might be to encourage sharing these kinds of things in the current stream channel instead i m not sure what value there is in having a dedicated channel for links without context it seems like it would be better to recommend sharing links with context in the relevant channel instead 1 jim winstead i like this brief and to the point 0 0x3b0b i am also not sold on the need for this channel but this is the name i prefer if we have one and i d rather have a separate channel for manually dropped links than route them to stream but i d also prefer a culture of at least a short phrase or so of context even in a dedicated channel which doesn t remove all the reasons for proposing a separate channel just the only one that actually bugs me personally as opposed to being something i can understand might bug other people 1 0 1 add yourself here see this for more details indieweb linkdump 0 tantek çelik have seen this as prior art could live with it also clearly says what it is for dumping links and what to expect to see there curious if this name resonates with anyone 1 aaron parecki sounds like a dumping ground for low value things 1 0x3b0b to me this almost implies that it would be for bulk link dropping 1 0 1 add yourself here see this for more details alternative auto reject bot or server setting links without commentary prod request for context 1 joe crawford proposer it seems plausible that a link absent any commentary https is something irc slack and discord would be able to identify and reject and prod the poster to include comments as to why it was being posted if i m vastly underestimating the technical hurdle i will withdraw but links absent commentary seems finite enough to detect and reject programmatically anthony ciccarello as someone who very c...
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