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b israeli conflict contentious topic area or not my view is that sideeffect s statement i have edited constructively so wp pgame does not apply is not quite true because it only addresses a single element of pgame the constructive vs unconstructive test and given that pgame states the purpose of having these access levels is to help people get and demonstrate that they have the practical experience needed for certain kinds of editing edits that rapidly reach the technical level but don t get the person any real experience are often considered gaming the system you can ask do these kinds of constructive fixes provide the practical experience needed to edit in the topic area if this somewhat hand wavy requirement is not part of pgame enforcement in practice and i think it probably isn t perhaps it should be removed from the guideline maybe the community is okay with this kind of rapid ec grant acquisition pattern in practice it is not very unusual it s pretty easy to rapidly make 500 of these kinds of edits wikimedia provides several newcomer tools to help people with it or constructive pre ec edits gnoming edits can be outsourced to an agent the person can take back control of the account once ec has been granted and no one is likely to notice so i sometimes wonder about the practical utility of the current pgame guideline wording sean hoyland talk 09 41 15 september 2026 utc reply the palestine article has ai hallucinations and other serious issues that have not been addressed for two years i m trying to fix it i m not on a rampage to edit the broader topic area i haven t added a single piece of new content to it intent is also irrelevant even if i joined wikipedia to edit ec articles it s perfectly acceptable everyone has the right to edit any wikipedia article we share knowledge under the principles of neutrality and open collaboration the purpose of ec is to prevent disruption and i haven t been disruptive side effect talk to your doctor 10 26 15 september 2026 utc reply with due respect to my colleagues above i disagree and do think this is gaming i see lots of trivial edits including at least one clear ecr violation and then as soon as they hit ecr they started editing palestine if that s not gaming then i don t know what is pppery it has begun 02 20 17 september 2026 utc reply that is not an ecr violation the arab israeli conflict is the contentious topic not israel or palestine on its own it s about nuclear weapons i did the same thing for every country most of my edit s on palestine is cleanup although i did make some edits related to a i conflict during cleanup side effect talk to your doctor 17 22 17 september 2026 utc reply why does israel allegedly have nuclear weapons to threaten its neighboring arab countries hence the page itself is inherently related to the conflict pppery it has begun 16 44 18 september 2026 utc reply requesting a move on that page for the purpose of consistency is imho not an ecr violation but is instead exactly the sort of edit requests related to articles within the topic area provided they are not disruptive that ecr explicitly allows the bushranger one ping only 19 16 18 september 2026 utc reply a requested move is not an edit request as arbcom uses the term see wikipedia_talk arbitration requests case palestine israel_articles_4 clarification request palestine israel articles july 2020 pppery it has begun 19 56 18 september 2026 utc reply that s a truly bizzare and imho unfortunate ruling the bushranger one ping only 23 23 18 september 2026 utc reply that s a fair point however i m permitted to make edit requests and i haven t participated in any discussions there requesting a requested move is itself a type of edit request i asked that the page be renamed and the community voted to change it could you point out any specific issues with my edits i m not sure why you d want to have my extended confirmed status revoked side effect talk to your doctor 19 18 18 september 2026 utc reply i don t see a need for any action here newyorkbrad talk 09 37 20 september 2026 utc reply the account s earliest 200 edits are concerning but they have ceased artificially subdividing their edits there s nothing concerning in the account s subsequent editing and it has now made over 700 edits i think that ecr revocation would be inappropriate in this case arctic ocean 10 14 20 september 2026 utc reply 2026 48147 63 edit dealt with pppery it has begun 02 20 17 september 2026 utc reply the following discussion has been closed please do not modify it talk cultural marxism conspiracy theory edit subject history links watch logs 2026 48147 63 talk contribs deleted contribs logs filter log block user block log requested action would like this ta blocked for incivility in a contentious topic area they are disrupting an rm that falls within wp ap and their behaviour is clearly not in line with pags 1 2 3 failure to wp agf and casting wp aspersions 4 i warn them to please knock it off or get out of the discussion 5 6 they respond no and follow it with more of the same with a sprinkle of personal attacks and if it wasn t obvious enough they re wp nothere they sign off with larry sanger was based which i m sure needs no further elaboration please rid the discussion of the source of this foolishness before i have to read any more of it maltazarian ᚾ parley displaystyle lor investigate ᛅ 01 23 15 september 2026 utc reply blocked no thanks none of that in a ctop not from anyone sennecaster chat 05 14 15 september 2026 utc reply sennecaster guards the exiled jester has returned to the court can you put a temporary semi protection on the talk page so this fellow can t keep coming back with tas maltazarian ᚾ parley displaystyle lor investigate ᛅ 16 21 15 september 2026 utc reply maltazarian semi protected for a period of 72 hours after which the page will be automatically unprotected done under wp ct at this time sennecaster chat 16 43 15 september 2026 utc reply missbvcc edit ec revoked pppery it has begun 02 21 17 september 2026 utc reply the following discussion has been closed please do not modify it missbvcc talk contribs i believe this user engaged in ec gaming in order to edit in the israeli palestinian topic area see this edit made immediately after becoming ec https en wikipedia org w index php title talk zionism diff prev oldid 1375021027 they made many minor edits to inflate their edit count https en wikipedia org w index php title special contributions missbvcc target missbvcc offset limit 500 iohannvsvervs talk 12 36 15 september 2026 utc reply i firmly deny the accusation my 501 edits accumulated over roughly 4 months which does not comply with the definition of wp ecgaming my edits were spread around a wide range of different and unrelated topics and articles and mostly focused on style grammar and typocs because this is my style of copy editing as for now i don t deny that the edit in israeli palestinian area came after my ec confirmation but timing alone is hardly ever an evidence of intent wp ecgaming is not a rule against ec editors to exercize their right to access a topic the moment they chose to my interest for the definition of zionism was prompted by a heated discussion i had this morning with someone on this topic that made me check the definition on various tertiary sources vs wikipedia and thus draw my attention on the lead section of this article i left the article itself 100 untouched and only asked other editor on the talk page for their opinion on the lead section of this article in the israeli palestinian topic there is no evidence that i tried to game my way into this specific topic and you won t find any because there is simply none missbvcc talk 13 05 15 september 2026 utc reply one does not simply make 38 edits to a single page within 50 minutes unless one is using it to deliberately inflate their edit count and here s 39 in 50 minutes on another article looking at your editing history you ve made that style of edits to multiple pages over that wide range of different and unrelated topics and articles this is either pgaming or behavior indistinguishable from it to be fair on a number of those articles the changes in each rapid fire edit are more extensive than in those more recent examples but even leaving aside gaming concerns it s an editing style that can be considered disruptive on its own the preview button exists for a reason if this wasn t a form of pgaming it s very easy to understand how it could be seen as such especially as you stopped that rapid fire edting yesterday on exactly the number of edits required to become xc and the possibility that you suddenly and abruptly got into a heated discussion about the definition of zionism that led you to post this as your very first edit after becoming extended confirmed jumping into one of the most heated topics on the encyclopedia to engage on a specific topic that is one of the most heated sub topics of that contentious topic would be a truly remarkable coincidence to quote a simple tailor i believe in coincidences coincidences happen every day i don t trust coincidences xc pulled you can request re granting of xc at wp rfp ec after making 500 constructive edits in a more normal editing pattern the bushranger one ping only 17 03 15 september 2026 utc reply assaultim edit assaultim talk contribs wp gaming check did the assaultim account game the extended confirmed permission to edit in the arab israeli conflict ctop gaming check tool plot and summary assaultim s first 500 edits was most substantially composed of intensive bouts of new change patrolling anti vandalism since may 2025 which is why around half of their pre ec edits are reverts i appreciate the value of the anti vandalism work but this is probably not the best learning experience for collaborative editing in this topic area since achieving ecr on the 24th of august assaultim has been in multiple content disputes across the topic area samuelshraga talk 20 28 17 september 2026 utc reply per wp pgame making unconstructive or trivial edits to raise your user access level is not allowed and the examples it provides are making dummy edits or edits to a sandbox to reach ecr you are correct that many of my pre ecr edits were counter vandalism related however i reject the implication that those are either unconstructive or trivial i have also engaged in many counter vandalism related edits after ecr and i have made many edits not related to the arab israeli conflict at all assaultim talk 12 18 18 september 2026 utc reply after much thought i don t think this is actionable as gaming per se if someone was trying to game their edit count with lots of vandal reverts they would likely have warned the users they reverted twice as many edits that way that and taking several months to reach extendedconfirmed after starting active editing is a negative indicator but i totally see where you are coming from here i actually came close to agreeing with you at one point i haven t looked at the merits of their edits in the pia area those can be dealt with in a separate filing if they are problematic pppery it has begun 01 39 19 september 2026 utc reply re assaultim s first 500 edits was most substantially composed of intensive bouts of new change patrolling anti vandalism since may 2025 vs i have also engaged in many counter vandalism related edits after ecr both of these statements appear to be true if reversion activity on both sides of the ec grant point is of interest it is better to switch off the limit colored by rug plots to pre ec option when generating the plot i have regenerated it re taking several months to reach extendedconfirmed after starting active editing is true but both the plot and the summary display the number of days of active editing i e unique dates on which a person saves a revision and for assaultim it s 30 dates out of the almost 4700 accounts that have been granted ec in the past year just under 1 in 5 of them did so with 30 days or less of active editing i agree btw that this is probably not the best learning experience for collaborative editing in this topic area but i also think as i ve said above that the practical experience needed requirement does not seem to be part of pgame enforcement in practice or you could say that editors including admins interpret pgame as currently written in inconsistent and selective ways based on what seem to be personal views on the purpose spirit of ecr rather than what pgame states as an objective maybe this means pgame is unenforceable in practice except in the most obvious and unambiguous cases either way rapid acquisition of the grant via arguably trivial or at least non experience building but constructive edits followed by a substantial focus on ecr pages is both relatively common and not something that the community appears to label as gaming for the most part or sees as problematic in itself sean hoyland talk 04 33 19 september 2026 utc reply on the 30 or fewer days of active editing i d add that of their first 500 edits there were 12 days on which assaultim made a single edit their first 8 edits followed by 19 may 7 june 9 june an ecr violation incidentally and 2 august another ecr vio there was another day 22 june that only had ecr violations so should definitely be excluded from the count the remaining 485 edits would have been on just 17 days of active editing i don t know how many other ecr violations there are but a few jumped out this one which they self reverted a minute later i don t know how to evaluate how admins have generally interpreted pgame all i ve looked at is the current board of quick requests and i don t see how this doesn t qualify pppery i suppose they could have reached extended confirmed faster if they had just warned every time they d reverted but it doesn t make sense to evaluate pgame by pointing out strategies they could have but didn t use the question is whether they did use strategies to game ecr not whether they used the optimal ones i look at the request on sideeffect and what i understand from your response is that lots of though not exclusively trivial but constructive edits including at least one ecr violation followed by immediately editing in the topic area is definitely gaming these were the edits assaultim made within an hour of receiving xc i m struggling to see the difference that makes this less obvious than the sideeffect case samuelshraga talk 18 35 19 september 2026 utc reply talk hasan piker removal of piker s criticism of gaza genocide zionism israeli government from introduction edit not an issue for a quick enforcement request pppery it has begun 05 00 20 september 2026 utc reply the following discussion has been closed please do not modify it talk hasan piker removal of piker s criticism of gaza genocide zionism israeli government from introduction edit subject history links watch logs review and guidance i have asked at teahouse but i don t think it has helpe...
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