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and apparently the cylinder s position at the time searching for a link between chlorine and a brown color the main thing i found was many sites talking about swimming pools where chlorinated water sometimes turns brown i gather this is largely from organic materials but can also be caused by oxidizing metals like iron i didn t find much information on situations outside the pool and involving free gas one easily available source explains chlorine gas can also react with iron to produce iron ii chloride and iron iii chloride depending on the conditions iron iii chloride is characterized by its red brown color and its ability to dissolve in water forming a yellow orange solution due to the presence of iron iii ions i suspect this is what we see iron iii chloride it s not from regular oxidization of chlorine as i had thought but only with prior contact with the iron in the steel container as such it would be regular for any case with a steel vessel as with all cases i ve seen of this brown residue that once white duvet winds up appearing about this same shade of brown either because it was coincidentally that color to start mysteries or because this ubiquitous brown color was added to the original white the mystery of how that would make total sense if chlorine color staining of fabrics chlor or brown were a thing and really it s not a thing i have ever heard of sources are not clear about this happening or not happening bleaching seems the main thing that happens regarding color michael took that as the fact but that may be a premature decision i had found one source long ago suggesting that staining also occurs sometimes a british doctor in world war i noted how with intense release and a prolonged stay a dead soldier s face sometimes assumes a pale greenish yellow colour ch 10 i don t recall seeing anything so stained in any syria chlorine attack aside from perhaps this case but i don t think i ve seen any others on long exposed skin or on absorbent fabric i looked for case examples of fabrics involved in chlorine spills with no luck yet but last minute i noticed an upholstered couch in the white helmets photo from al latamnah used above let s see that again color and brightness enhanced if chlorine does not stain fabrics then this couch was upholstered with a mottled mix of yellow green and reddish brown pretty much the same colors we re wondering about possibly sitting a mostly yellow original color it s an almost nauseating color mix can we get some frost on this thing the gas cloud would be deep enough to apparently envelop the entire couch the area in question is a small mostly enclosed entrance and waiting area outside the hospital breeze depending it seems likely a deep cloud would form here if the contents had poured out of the giant tear we see so yeah i think chlorine gas can leave such colors on fabrics like the douma duvet an image from the ffm final report shows deep final staining in yellow orange and brown under the valve with intense corrosion water was apparently splashed all over at least once which would react with chlorine to produce hydrochloric acid and recall iron iii chloride is characterized by its red brown color and its ability to dissolve in water forming a yellow orange solution the wood here also shows faint chlor staining while the fabric shows it intensely this might help us to understand why the duvet and that couch could be re colored even though we don t usually see this effect when other materials are involved finally the frosted valve that michael had also mentioned see images above he probably decided on that as the dry concrete dust piled on the top would not coat the valve on all sides like this unless the surface was sticky perhaps with the brown liquid evident nearby i propose this is dust covering the valve on all sides because it is sticky with the brown goo the cap was red instead of white in the earlier view not because frost had melted but because the dust was wiped off on that pillow while something frosting over would go to suggest a rapid and presumably controlled release the lack of frost that i suspect allows for the same inference just using different clues in my 3 images above i see in images 2 and 3 a rapid gas release where the gas piled up deeper than it had before to coat all but the upper pillows the third image suggests another piling of gas shortly before the ffm visit with new yellow green staining added and the brown shift just beginning the cloud appears deeper over the pillows but really the bed has just collapsed and sunk beneath the cylinder which remains lightly propped on the headboard it s not clear if the opening knob ever moves it may be left open or closed with internal damage allowing a leak and only the cap holds that in until the cap is removed a small deformity and gap in the cap might allow the light spray and spatters seen even when it s on a gas release rapid enough to pile up like that would empty the cylinder quickly if it continued for long but this never happened suggesting that these rapid releases were somehow stopped when they visited 18 days after the alleged attack the opcw s fact finding mission noted that there did not appear to be any leakage at the time and no chlorine gas was detected in the room but they neglect to mention how full the cylinder still was on an even later visit he headed on may 1 whistleblower inspector a saw a cylinder that was still noticeably heavy and appeared to be mostly full of liquid this means probably less than half had emptied in the last 3 weeks the valve appeared intact to inspector a although possibly leaking he notes that we smelled a faint trace of chlorine perhaps from a leak in the cylinder or valve although none has been noted inspector a the syria scam p 166 212 but maybe the smell was residual from the latest in a string of controlled releases the limited amount being released in a rapid manner suggests as does the color sequence above and the various patterns of brown discoloration that the release was intermittent and presumably controlled via the valve further developments i ll leave this space for anything further i discover to shed light on this subject a discussion on x the frost debate got heated here on x for those who can read it i plan to bring copious notes over here fairly soon my view is changing to about the same but sharpened and more fully explained thanks to the testing additional research and reasoning by both michael and myself finally understanding my case i think he s considering the relevant details and may be preparing to come around not to his quick reading of my initial case but to my collaboratively improved position as an overall best guess but we ll see https x com cl4syr status 1994377709141807232 posted by caustic logic at 10 05 pm 0 comments email this blogthis share to x share to facebook share to pinterest labels chlorine douma chemical massacre wednesday october 1 2025 timeline of the syria chemical file the first 20 months rough incomplete october 1 2025 edits 10 5 full intro later span january 2012 up to the august 2013 ghouta chemical massacre and about one week past that with an emphasis on the less known early portion as explored earlier in the series the first bodies tossed across obama s red line the links to relevant sub posts are included below included here are 38 incidents or chemical attacks real alleged or just possible with summaries of the available evidence i call on a lot of prior research and some fresh review with sometimes incomplete citation frequently cited monitor this blog aclos a closer look on syria research wiki i helped start in 2012 and have badly flaked out on since years back apologies for the pop ups and ads but at least the site still works thanks to ce and a few new regulars cw category page pretty complete to 2017 a great many of the sources i cited over a decade ago are no longer active purpose in part to explore the seemingly circular relationship between the us red line threat offer and intelligence about events on the ground this is a bit long for most people to read in its entirety if you re here be sure to see the last 2 headings for august 2013 even if you skip the rest table of contents 2012 january february murky early moves july august a red line threat or offer september november getting things set up november december four deadly cw attacks claimed in the damascus suburbs ominous developments in early december late december chemical attacks kill 7 people each 2013 the run up to 19 march 19 march 3 synchronized cw attacks in aleppo damascus and homs torpedoing syria s requested investigation a slew of new attacks in april questions arise in may sarin confirmations in june may june reported attacks kill fsa fighters investigation progress over the summer an august surprise run up to the ghouta attack ghouta attack massacre and addenda 2012 january february murky early moves january a defector from the syrian cw program unnamed would later say two senior syrian officers moved about 100 kilograms of chemical weapons materials from a secret military base near damascus headed towards lebanon and the regime also had several mobile cw mixing labs prepared to use against protesters this was only reported to washington post s david ignatius in mid december almost a year later and remains a rather questionable claim as noted even in the post it s quite reminiscent of the claims of iraqi defector curveball wapo at web archive org there was never any confirmation of these claims and everything else points to some cws moving the opposite direction into syria perhaps via lebanon or maybe via turkey at perhaps this same time the next entry is the only one from the assad files about a million pages of top secret orders said to prove assad regime crimes my analysis overview found that of the dozens of published or cited examples none of them reveals any clearly criminal orders and certainly no orders related to cw use none of it bolsters the above claim or relates to anything below or any of the other cw allegations against the assad regime in fact the published portion includes just one relevant but early file taken as perhaps a coded admission of planned cw use this might help set the stage for the rest quite well so i ll cite it at length 2 february a collected memo had syrian security officials alerting each other that as translated we received information stating that the libyan terrorists have acquired chemical weapons from the libyan chemical arsenal the weapons will be shipped to turkish territories to be used later in some syrian governorates especially the ones that are facing unrest this will be done in order to accuse the regime in coordination with biased television channels of using the chemical weapons in order to escalate the syrian crisis and internationalize it after all the failed attempts to move the syrian crisis dossier to the security council https syriaaccountability org monitor not two weeks later incident 1 14 february prior to homs baba amr district a newly defected syrian officer lt abdulsalam abdulrazaq claims in a feb 14 interview with saudi paper al arabiya that a nerve agent likely sarin has already been used somewhere in homs the syrian army was pushing a major offensive to reclaim the city from insurgents that had come down to baba amr where this attack reportedly happened a report by cw expert julian perry robinson no longer available noted this from a february 21 turkish media report citing abdulrazaq who used to work in the chemical weapons department in the syrian army and defected to turkey last week he said that chemical weapons were used against civilians during the military offensive of the syrian security forces in bab amr the newspaper also reports him as saying that syrian soldiers were given gas masks recently in order to protect themselves from the chemical weapons that would be used against the protestors in syria monitor al arabiya the alleged incident details are extremely unclear robinson cited a later report about 12 medical cases including two people who died sometime prior to april 6 the opposition vdc s now defunct database had listed 2 killed in february by other before a chemical gas section was added one a civilian suffocated by tear gas dying only on the 20th about a week after the incident and a saudi militant with jabhat al nusra ayman hweti dying 3 days later with no explanation reported symptoms included weakness fatigue neuropathy arthralgia joint pains amnesia skin rashes hair loss and abdominal pain raised temperature irritation boils on the face mouth ulcers hair loss from the head and body shown at right besides constipation and urinary retention the signs had a slow onset only noted 3 or 4 days after leaving baba amr and perhaps even longer since alleged exposure this sounds like some kind of toxic exposure but certainly no deadly chemical weapon like sarin https rosealhomsi wordpress com 2012 03 29 chemical weapons in baba am abdulrazaq first said of the unspecified agent used in baba amr it was a nerve agent and a little amount of this is enough to carry out a mass extermination this suggested sarin was used but only 2 people died many days later and on the 21st he told hürriyet daily news the toxin was rather bz cs chlorine benzilate which damages people s nerves and makes them fade away robinson adds this bz cs apparently refers to two agents in combination the incapacitating agent bz and the common irritant tear gas cs and shouldn t have a combined singular name like he gave the expected combined symptoms were not an obvious match to reports especially for the strangely delayed onset of signs robinson also noted this was the first time bz had been suggested as part of syria s cw capabilities is it something the libyans had july august a red line threat or offer 13 july prior to although many others have expressed the idea in different words before and later the exact phrase red line relating to syrian cw use is of special interest william van wagenen s creative chaos cites a wall street journal report saying this talk started with israeli officials who used the term in private discussions with their american counterparts sometime prior to next entry william van wagenen creative chaos p 245 13 july following reports said regime was moving cws in homs perhaps to prevent advancing insurgents from seizing them pentagon spokesman george little said we would caution them strongly against any intention to use those weapons that would cross a serious red line 23 july syrian foreign ministry spokesman jihad makdissi any stock of w m d or unconventional weapons that the syrian army possesses will never never be used against the syrian people or civilians during this crisis under any circumstances 11 august hillary clinton in turkey in the horrible event that chemical weapons were used and everyone has made that clear that is a red line to the world and the...
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