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favicon.ico: web.archive.org/web/20221203001707/https://planet.debian.org - Planet Debian.

site address: web.archive.org/web/20221203001707/https://planet.debian.org redirected to: web.archive.org/web/20221203001707/https://planet.debian.org

site title: Planet Debian

Our opinion (on Thursday 17 September 2026 5:50:35 UTC):

GREEN status (no comments) - no comments
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sed version 2 2 0 of nageru my live video mixer the big ticket item this time is av1 support through svt av1 but it s still too experimental for production in particular as i ve written about before the client ecosystem isn t quite there yet but there s also a few cleanups in particular a dependency removal every dependency is a long term burden and in retrospect i shouldn t have taken on so many i am aware that this is ironic given the previous paragraph i m wondering maybe if i should try to control my own fate a bit more and get rid of some anyway here s the changelog as usual nageru and futatabi 2 2 0 november 15th 2022 support av1 output via svt av1 note that this is still somewhat experimental not the least because svt av1 s streaming support is not as mature as x264 remove the dependency on qcustomplot expose blureffect and unsharpmaskeffect to the theme clean up several rarely unused command line flags all the 10 bit flags are now collapsed to 10 bit remove http uncompressed video remove the x264 vbv flags hide x264 speedcontrol verbose hide no flush pbos make a workaround for audio monitoring output under pipewire update cef compatibility tested with cef 107 downloads as always on nageru sesse net 17 november 2022 11 21pm november 16 2022 ian jackson stop writing rust linked list libraries tl dr don t write a rust linked list library they are hard to do well and usually useless use vecdeque which is great if you actually need more than vecdeque can do use one of the handful of libraries that actually offer a significantly more useful api if you are writing your own data structure check if someone has done it already and consider slotmap or generation_arena or maybe rc arc contents survey of rust linked list libraries background results why are there so many poor rust linked list libraries double ended queues the cursor concept rustic approaches to pointers to and between nodes data structures the alternative for nodey data structures in safe rust rc arc rust s package ecosystem demonstrating software s nih problem the package naming paradox survey of rust linked list libraries i have updated my survey of rust linked list libraries background in 2019 i was writing plag mangler a tool for planar graph layout i needed a data structure naturally i looked for a library to help i didn t find what i needed so i wrote rc dlist deque however on the way i noticed an inordinate number of linked list libraries written in rust most all of these had no real reason for existing even the one in the rust standard library is useless results now i have redone the survey the results are depressing in 2019 there were 5 libraries which in my opinion were largely useless in late 2022 there are now thirteen linked list libraries that ought probably not ever to be used and a further eight libraries for which there are strictly superior alternatives many of these have the signs of projects whose authors are otherwise competent proper documentation extensive apis and so on there is one new library which is better for some applications than those available in 2019 i m referring to generational_token_list which makes a plausible alternative to dlv list which i already recommended in 2019 why are there so many poor rust linked list libraries linked lists and rust do not go well together but and i m guessing here i presume many people are taught in programming school that a linked list is a fundamental data structure people are often even asked to write one as a teaching exercise this is a bad idea in rust or maybe they ve heard that writing linked lists in rust is hard and want to prove they can do it double ended queues one of the main applications for a linked list in a language like c is a queue where you put items in at one end and take them out at the other the rust standard library has a data structure for that vecdeque five of the available libraries have an api which is a subset of that of vecdeque basically pushing and popping elements at the front and back have worse performance for most applications than vecdeque are less mature less available less well tested etc than vecdeque simply because vecdeque is in the rust standard library for these you could and should just use vecdeque instead the cursor concept a proper linked list lets you identify and hold onto an element in the middle of the list and cheaply insert and remove elements there rust s ownership and borrowing rules make this awkward one idea that people have many times reinvented and reimplemented is to have a cursor type derived from the list which is a reference to an element and permits insertion and removal there eight libraries have implemented this in the obvious way however there is a serious api limitation to prevent a cursor being invalidated e g by deletion of the entry it points to you can t modify the list while the cursor exists you can only have one cursor that can be used for modification at a time the practical effect of this is that you cannot retain cursors you can make and use such a cursor for a particular operation but you must dispose of it soon attempts to do otherwise will see you losing a battle with the borrow checker if that s good enough then you could just use a vecdeque and use array indices instead of the cursors it s true that deleting or adding elements in the middle involves a lot of copying but your algorithm is o n even with the single cursor list libraries because it must first walk the cursor to the desired element formally i believe any algorithm using these exclusive cursors can be rewritten in an obvious way to simply iterate and or copy from the start or end as one can do with vecdeque without changing the headline o performance characteristics imo the savings available from avoiding extra copies etc are not worth the additional dependency unsafe code and so on especially as there are other ways of helping with that e g boxing the individual elements even if you don t find that convincing generational_token_list and dlv_list are strictly superior since they offer a more flexible and convenient api and better performance and rely on much less unsafe code rustic approaches to pointers to and between nodes data structures most of the time a vecdeque is great but if you actually want to hold onto perhaps many references to the middle of the list and later modify it through those references you do need something more this is a specific case of a general class of problems where the naive approach use rust references to the data structure nodes doesn t work well but there is a good solution keep all the nodes in an array a vec option t or similar and use the index in the array as your node reference this is fast and quite ergonomic and neatly solves most of the problems if you are concerned that bare indices might cause confusion as newly inserted elements would reuse indices add a per index generation count these approaches have been neatly packaged up in libraries like slab slotmap generational arena and thunderdome and they have been nicely applied to linked lists by the authors of generational_token_list and dlv list the alternative for nodey data structures in safe rust rc arc of course you can just use rust s interior mutability and reference counting smart pointers to directly implement the data structure of your choice in many applications a single threaded data structure is fine in which case rc and cell refcell will let you write safe code with cheap refcount updates and runtime checks inserted to defend against unexpected aliasing use after free etc i took this approach in rc dlist deque because i wanted each node to be able to be on multiple lists rust s package ecosystem demonstrating software s nih problem the rust ecosystem is full of nih libraries of all kinds in my survey there are five good options seven libraries which are plausible but just not as good as the alternatives and fourteen others there is a whole rant i could have about how the whole software and computing community is pathologically neophilic often we seem to actively resist reusing ideas let alone code and are ignorant and dismissive of what has gone before as a result we keep solving the same problems badly making the same mistakes over and over again in some subfields working software or nearly working software is frequently replaced with something worse maybe more than once one aspect of this is a massive cultural bias towards rewriting rather than reusing let alone fixing and using many people can come out of a degree trained to be a programmer and have no formal training in selecting and evaluating software this is even though working effectively with computers requires making good use of everyone else s work if one isn t taught these skills when and how to search for prior art how to choose between dependencies and so on one must learn it on the job the result is usually an ad hoc and unsystematic approach often dominated by fashion rather than engineering the package naming paradox the more experienced and competent programmer is aware of all the other options that exist after all they have evaluated other choices before writing their own library so they will call their library something like generational_token_list or vecdeque stableix whereas the novice straight out of a pre rust programming course just thinks what they are doing is the one and only obvious thing even though it s a poor idea and hasn t even searched for a previous implementation so they call their package something obvious like linked list as a result the most obvious names seem to refer to the least useful libraries edited 2022 11 16 23 55 utc to update numbers of libraries in various categories following updates to the survey including updates prompted by feedback received after this post first published comments 16 november 2022 11 55pm antoine beaupré wayland i3 to sway migration i started migrating my graphical workstations to wayland specifically migrating from i3 to sway this is mostly to address serious graphics bugs in the latest framwork laptop but also something i felt was inevitable the current status is that i ve been able to convert my i3 configuration to sway and adapt my systemd startup sequence to the new environment screen sharing only works with pipewire so i also did that migration which basically requires an upgrade to debian bookworm to get a nice enough pipewire release i m testing wayland on my laptop but i m not using it as a daily driver because i first need to upgrade to debian bookworm on my main workstation most irritants have been solved one way or the other my main problem with wayland right now is that i spent a frigging week doing the conversion it s exciting and new but it basically sucked the life out of all my other projects and it s distracting and i want it to stop the rest of this page documents why i made the switch how it happened and what s left to do hopefully it will keep you from spending as much time as i did in fixing this tl dr wayland is mostly ready main blockers you might find are that you need to do manual configurations displaylink multiple monitors on a single cable doesn t work in sway hdr and color management are still in development i had to install the following packages apt install brightnessctl foot gammastep gdm3 grim slurp pipewire pulse sway swayidle swaylock wdisplays wev wireplumber wlr randr xdg desktop portal wlr and did some of tweaks in my home mostly dealing with my esoteric systemd startup sequence which you won t have to deal with if you are not a fan why switch i originally held back from migrating to wayland it seemed like a complicated endeavor hardly worth the cost it also didn t seem actually ready but after reading this blurb on lwn i decided to at least document the situation here the actual quote that convinced me it might be worth it was it s amazing i have never experienced gaming on linux that looked this smooth in my life i m not a gamer but i do care about latency the longer version is worth a read as well the point here is not to bash one side or the other or even do a thorough comparison i start with the premise that xorg is likely going away in the future and that i will need to adapt some day in fact the last major xorg release 21 1 october 2021 is rumored to be the last just like the previous release that said minor releases are still coming out e g 21 1 4 indeed it seems even core xorg people have moved on to developing wayland or at least xwayland which was spun off it its own source tree x or at least xorg in in maintenance mode and has been for years granted the x window system is getting close to forty years old at this point it got us amazingly far for something that was designed around the time the first graphical interface since mac and especially windows released theirs they have rebuilt their graphical backends numerous times but unix derivatives have stuck on xorg this entire time which is a testament to the design and reliability of x or our incapacity at developing meaningful architectural change across the entire ecosystem take your pick i guess what pushed me over the edge is that i had some pretty bad driver crashes with xorg while screen sharing under firefox in debian bookworm around november 2022 the symptom would be that the ui would completely crash reverting to a text only console while firefox would keep running audio and everything still working people could still see my screen but i couldn t of course let alone interact with it all processes still running including xorg and no sorry i haven t reported that bug maybe i should have and it s actually possible it comes up again in wayland of course but at first screen sharing didn t work of course so it s coming a much further way after making screen sharing work though the bug didn t occur again so i consider this a xorg specific problem until further notice there were also frustrating glitches in the ui in general i actually had to setup a compositor alongside i3 to make things bearable at all video playback in a window was laggy sluggish and out of sync wayland fixed all of this wayland equivalents this section documents each tool i have picked as an alternative to the current xorg tool i am using for the task at hand it also touches on other alternatives and how the tool was configured note that this list is based on the series of tools i use in desktop todo update desktop with the following when done possibly moving old configs to a xorg archive window manager i3 sway this seems like kind of a no brainer sway is around it s feature complete and it s in debian i m a bit worried about the drew devault community to be honest there s a certain aggressiveness in the community i don t like so much at least an open hostility towards more modern unix tools like containers and systemd that make it hard to do my work while interacting with that community i m also concern about the lack of unit tests and user manu...
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Server nginx
Date Tue, 15 Sep 2026 03:30:20 GMT
Content-Type text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Length 0
Connection close
x-archive-redirect-reason found capture at 20221203001707
location htt???/web.archive.org/web/20221203001707/htt????/planet.debian.org/
server-timing captures_list;dur=0.920198, exclusion.robots;dur=0.050055, exclusion.robots.policy;dur=0.033931, esindex;dur=0.009753, cdx.remote;dur=20.697490, LoadShardBlock;dur=135.726936, PetaboxLoader3.datanode;dur=69.028943, PetaboxLoader3.resolve;dur=33.367818
x-app-server wwwb-app265-dc8
x-ts 302
x-tr 187
server-timing TR;dur=0,Tw;dur=0,Tc;dur=1
set-cookie wb-p-SERVER=wwwb-app265; path=/
X-location All
X-AS 16276
X-RL 0
X-NA 0
X-Page-Cache MISS
Server-Timing MISS
X-NID OVH SAS
Referrer-Policy no-referrer-when-downgrade
Permissions-Policy interest-cohort=()
X-sd 0
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Server nginx
Date Tue, 15 Sep 2026 03:30:33 GMT
Content-Type text/html; charset=utf-8
Transfer-Encoding chunked
Connection close
x-archive-orig-connection keep-alive
x-archive-orig-x-crawler-content-length 175365
x-archive-orig-content-length 638140
x-archive-orig-server Apache
x-archive-orig-x-content-type-options nosniff
x-archive-orig-x-frame-options sameorigin
x-archive-orig-referrer-policy no-referrer
x-archive-orig-x-xss-protection 1
x-archive-orig-permissions-policy interest-cohort=()
x-archive-orig-last-modified Sat, 03 Dec 2022 00:01:19 GMT
x-archive-orig-etag 9bcbc-5eee1276756b9-gzip
x-archive-orig-cache-control max-age=600
x-archive-orig-expires Sat, 03 Dec 2022 00:19:39 GMT
x-archive-orig-x-crawler-content-encoding gzip
x-archive-orig-x-clacks-overhead GNU Terry Pratchett
x-archive-orig-accept-ranges bytes
x-archive-orig-date Sat, 03 Dec 2022 00:17:07 GMT
x-archive-orig-via 1.1 varnish
x-archive-orig-age 449
x-archive-orig-x-served-by cache-iad-kcgs7200067-IAD
x-archive-orig-x-cache HIT
x-archive-orig-x-cache-hits 1
x-archive-orig-x-timer S1670026628.908548,VS0,VE1
x-archive-orig-vary Accept-Encoding
x-archive-orig-strict-transport-security max-age=15552000
x-archive-guessed-content-type text/html
x-archive-guessed-charset utf-8
memento-datetime Sat, 03 Dec 2022 00:17:07 GMT
link <htt????/planet.debian.org/>; rel= original , <htt???/web.archive.org/web/timemap/link/htt????/planet.debian.org/>; rel= timemap ; type= application/link-format , <htt???/web.archive.org/web/htt????/planet.debian.org/>; rel= timegate , <htt???/web.archive.org/web/20040831015642/htt???/planet.debian.org:80/>; rel= first memento ; datetime= Tue, 31 Aug 2004 01:56:42 GMT , <htt???/web.archive.org/web/20221202211259/htt????/planet.debian.org/>; rel= prev memento ; datetime= Fri, 02 Dec 2022 21:12:59 GMT , <htt???/web.archive.org/web/20221203001707/htt????/planet.debian.org/>; rel= memento ; datetime= Sat, 03 Dec 2022 00:17:07 GMT , <htt???/web.archive.org/web/20221205162226/htt????/planet.debian.org/>; rel= next memento ; datetime= Mon, 05 Dec 2022 16:22:26 GMT , <htt???/web.archive.org/web/20260913204240/htt????/planet.debian.org/>; rel= last memento ; datetime= Sun, 13 Sep 2026 20:42:40 GMT
content-security-policy default-src self unsafe-eval unsafe-inline data: blob: archive.org web.archive.org web-static.archive.org wayback-api.archive.org athena.archive.org analytics.archive.org pragma.archivelab.org wwwb-events.archive.org
x-archive-src CC-MAIN-2022-49-1669446710916.70-0043/CC-MAIN-20221202215443-20221203005443-00878.warc.gz
server-timing captures_list;dur=3.361233, exclusion.robots;dur=0.246596, exclusion.robots.policy;dur=0.164445, esindex;dur=0.060644, cdx.remote;dur=187.074385, LoadShardBlock;dur=11240.726009, PetaboxLoader3.resolve;dur=55.290946, PetaboxLoader3.datanode;dur=11221.005902, load_resource;dur=70.263969, nav;dur=0.286667
x-app-server wwwb-app249-dc8
x-ts 200
x-tr 12121
server-timing TR;dur=0,Tw;dur=0,Tc;dur=1
set-cookie wb-p-SERVER=wwwb-app249; path=/
X-location All
X-AS 16276
X-RL 0
X-NA 0
X-Page-Cache MISS
Server-Timing MISS
X-NID OVH SAS
Referrer-Policy no-referrer-when-downgrade
Permissions-Policy interest-cohort=()
X-sd 0
Content-Encoding gzip

Meta Tags

title="Planet Debian"
http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"
name="generator" content="htt???/intertwingly.net/code/venus/"

Load Info

page size744792
load time (s)13.62527
redirect count1
speed download15419
server IP 207.241.237.3
* all occurrences of the string "http://" have been changed to "htt???/"