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Text of the page (random words):
ving problems with this form the remedy instructions and exemptions says to report immediately here specifico quite often reverts other peoples edits and then stop anyone putting in the change unless there s been extensive discussions or an rfc establishing clear consensus against them there s no blp issue neither the person who originally removed it nor specifico said there was a blp issue it has been there for a long time nadvolum talk 18 59 7 august 2022 utc reply notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested diff showing notification discussion concerning specifico edit statements must be made in separate sections they may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs except by permission of a reviewing administrator administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements disruptive contributions may result in blocks statement by specifico edit responding to request of dennis brown in case anyone is not aware this complaint is the fourth concurrent open thread in which nadvolum has filed complaints against me for whatever reasons the others are 1 2 3 all of these relate to the blp articles in the julian assange orbit where there have been ongoing blp problems that i would say may be underlain by a few editors insistent and unduly credulous acceptance of various narratives of assange and his supporters even when acceptance conflict with wp content and sourcing policies the community s lack of endorsement of any of those complaints does raise the possiblity that the current complaint is part of a campaign of forum shopping by op to vent their personal frustration with me over content issues for those who are not familiar with op this is a single purpose account that has made very few edits outside of pages on assange or setting the table to support content on the assange page there have been discusions on the article talk page for some time about the importance of trimming assange s personal biography page so as to include only the significant details of his life including those at wikileaks but not the actions of wikileaks for which there is no content linking assange to those action similar issues arise in many bio pages of public figures in politics and related fields softlemonades removed some such content for which as far as i can tell no prior discussion that would privilege it as established consensus and as i stated in my edit summary undoing op s rapid reinsertion i think there should have been talk page discussion prior to reinstating that content it s evident that i think that s consistent with consensus required i would hardly cite own edit as a violation of the page restriction as op seems to claim it is also evident though not discussed in the past 6 months that non assange but wikileaks content creates blp problems for this article we should not be including every adventure and every scandal of wikileaks as if it is assange s hand at work or assange s personal responsibility op has participated in at least one such discussion and is aware of various editors blp concerns one such discussion is here this issue has come up many times softlemonades raised the issue on the talk page after she removed the content which is what prompted my revert of op s reinsertion we also have op very carelessly posting clearcut blp violations on several occasions e g when he stated as fact that hillary clinton wanted to kill assange with a drone offering a sheepish retraction at the bottom of this thread saying he really didn t check into it this followed a long discussion of the issue at the david leigh journalist page and op s own posting of related thread at blpn finally op went straight to this ae complaint without even coming to my user talk page to voice his concern or warn me that such a complaint was imminent i can t recall the last time a complaint was made on any editor no attempt at prior engagement it wastes lots of editor and admin resources dennis brown could you explain out of process by the number of reverts i am not understanding that my reading of the sequence is that softlemonades challenged the blp wikilinks content and then nadvolum reinstated it instead of going to talk meanwhile when softlemonades opened the talk thread i undid what i believe was the out of process reinstatement of challenged article content with the associated blp issues as i said in my edit summary i think the reinstatement of the challenged content violated the page restriction consensus required specifico talk 01 05 8 august 2022 utc reply dennis brown thanks for the reply i am aware of that essay in fact i made several edits to it a couple of years ago however there have been many discussions among longtime editors and among admins in which that simplified rubrik is disputed or rejected just as we have ongoing disagreement among admins as to the definition of revert as you may know there s current ongoing discussion of wp onus and wp nocon at wt v concerning the status of longstanding content that has not been positively affirmed consensus even though it s been in the article for a while there is also discussion at talk page of the consensus required essay i don t think it s correct to state in absolute terms that my removal of the disputed content pending talk page was violating a consensus obviously per my edit summary i didn t think so at the time of the edit and i am fairly experienced editing pages that require differentiating established consensus documented by prior talk page discussion editing activity or agreement in principle vs content that s stayed in the article a while without much notice and attention the assange page s ongoing blp issue viz a viz wikileaks had been identified and repeatedly discussed on the talk page in the presence of op editors never agreed in effect to transclude all of wikileaks controversies and alleged misdeeds into assange s personal bio as you already know i do not agree that this wikileaks content was consensus and i have not seen that essay treated as an absolute bright line regardless of the content or circumstances anyway that s why i did not hesitate to undo op s reinstatement of the challenged content and as i said if he had informed me of his concern i see no reason to think we would have ended up here at ae specifico talk 02 36 8 august 2022 utc reply dennis brown thanks again for your reply to be sure we are not talking past one another no i am not claiming there was consensus for anything i said and still say there was no consensus for this blp content that transcluded wikileaks deeds and controversies onto the biography of assange the man accordingly when this was pointed out by softlemonades and a discussion started on talk that it should have remained out it s an ongoing problem that about half our editors would cite wp onus to keep the problem text in the article as implicit consensus while half our editors would say to keep it out per onus in this case where there had been no affirmation of the content and the blp problem had repeatedly been discussed and acknowledged i felt that the immediate reinsertion without consensus in the talk page thread went against consensus required further to be frank it appears to have been another case of op s long voiced frustration and impatience with discussion and consensus seeking on this page specifico talk 12 48 8 august 2022 utc reply ping ealdgyth i think it s begging the question to refer to my edit as this kind of edit warring i m careful not to edit war and i and others have pointed out the issue relating to blp material and prior and current talk page discussions of same i ve tried to present my view of the issues of implicit consensus and onus and the ongoing discussions on wt pages about what constitutes implicit consensus for longstanding text and other factors i was the editor who requested ds page restrictions on this article due to repeated edit warring as dennis brown points out the cr page is an essay from one point of view not a policy i read the cr restricton in the context of the community s views on consensus which do not provide a bright line rule such as 1rr it s evident that my understanding is not something i cooked up to deflect responsibility for disruptive edit warring because i cited cir in my edit summary for the diff in question i do not believe that any wp consensus policy is intended to lock down content recent or longstanding that has been reasonably challenged that having been said any admin who rejects my understanding and concludes that my handling of the content issue was disruptive is empowered by ds to sanction me on their own discretion regardless of my intention or anything i say here so i don t know that it s helpfiul for me to go on at length or repeat myself about the article blp consensus etc and i ll stop i ll only add that it s clear to me that this was a vexatious complaint by nadvolum after they failed to get me sanctioned or my blp concern rejected in the 3 other threads they had open at ani and blpn at the same time they filed this complaint moreover nadvolum openly flouts blp that was the subject of their trip to blpn regarding david leigh jouirnalist they recently posted another blp violation linked above saying hillary clinton wanted to kill assange these overt and implied blp violations have come up over and over on this page and a minority of editors there do greatly frustrate many others who do not share our concerns specifico talk 14 25 9 august 2022 utc reply dennis brown with considerable respect for your efforts i don t think it s fair to conclude that i am doubling down by stating my understanding and documentation of consensus and blp issues regarding this complaint specifico talk 14 25 9 august 2022 utc reply comment by goodday edit which arbcom case is being requested to enforce goodday talk 12 28 7 august 2022 utc reply it s the red link above that s confusing me thus my question which arbcom case is being referred to goodday talk 19 51 7 august 2022 utc reply ok now i know which case goodday talk 22 35 7 august 2022 utc reply recommend the disputing editors open an rfc at the julian assange page in order to clarify the consensus in question if there s doubts about what that consensus is goodday talk 01 56 8 august 2022 utc reply specifico if it hasn t already been restored i recommend that you restore the content in question i e undo your revert then seek a new consensus at the assange talkpage to have the content removed goodday talk 14 49 9 august 2022 utc reply statement by aquillion edit unless i m misunderstanding the situation per wp blprestore in situations where blp does apply the default when there is a conflict over blp sensitive material is to leave it out not in this is a specific exception to the usual wp brd procedure and the way we handle wp nocon situations in order to restore the text in question you would have to argue that it is not blp sensitive or that there is an existing consensus for it and even then one revert removing it wouldn t normally be wp ae worthy the teeth of wp blpds the stuff that calls for an immediate ae action even from one or two bad edits is intended for things that could potentially harm the reputation of article s subject aquillion talk 12 57 7 august 2022 utc reply statement by mr ernie edit that isn t how it works and specifico knows it as they were topic banned about two years ago for almost the exact same thing an editor removed long standing text which implies it had consensus to be there nadvolum reverts it back in and specifico reverts it back out insisting on a new consensus if specifico s edit summary was valid it would give editors license to revert stuff they don t like out of controversial articles and require new fresh discussions to find consensus for it to go back in regardless of how longstanding it was mr ernie talk 13 53 7 august 2022 utc reply nad amend your request and replace the red text under sanction or remedy to be enforced to link to wp arbapds mr ernie talk 20 29 7 august 2022 utc reply a possible reason why nadvolum didn t bring this up to specifico before reporting to ae specifico went to nadvolum s page a few days ago to accuse them of making personal attacks and has not bothered to substantiate these aspersions link mr ernie talk 12 48 8 august 2022 utc reply statement by nadvolum edit in response to aquillon there is no blp issue neither the person who originally removed the text nor specifico said there was a blp issue and it has been around for a long time in the discussion by the original person on the talk page talk julian_assange why_list_things_assange_wasnt_actively_involved_in you can see they talked about why if this was okay wasn t it okay to list all the major scandals and criticisms of wikileaks too and i pointed to wp blppublic for that they said at the end of the back and forth that their problem was bloat which i can sympathize with to some extent but this is not the way to deal with that nadvolum talk 19 22 7 august 2022 utc reply in response to gooday i was following the instructions on the talk page under warning active arbitration remedies violations of any of these restrictions should be reported immediately to the arbitration enforcement noticeboard editors who are aware of discretionary sanctions in this topic area and who violate these restrictions may be sanctioned by any uninvolved administrator even on a first offense so that s what i did it isn t as if specifico hasn t removed new text and warned people against adding it again and often an rfc is needed to establsh consensus before it can be put in i think i d prefer it left the way it was before and any discussion be about removing the long standing text instead nadvolum talk 19 22 7 august 2022 utc reply in reponse to mr ernie it sounds a bit in what you say like i was involved in that previous discussion i wasn t and didn t even know abot that i looked up specifico s log when raising this and i didn t see anything about it nadvolum talk 19 36 7 august 2022 utc reply in response to guerillero i m sorry i don t understand what you are asking for discretionary sanctions as talked about at the top of this page sounds fine to me or is there a list of possible sanctions i should try to choose from thanks nadvolum talk 20 07 7 august 2022 utc reply thank you very much jéské couriano yes that sounds right i see that wp arbapds was linked to in that text on the article talk page nadvolum talk 20 43 7 august 2022 utc reply in response to specifico i guess people can check most of it themselves but about the blp violation i changed a sentence which had just been inserted saying wikileaks asked trump jr to share a claim by assange that hillary clinton had wanted to attack him with drones assange did not claim that bit of conspiracy theory the source cited this other conspiracy site that i did not recognize as such this had nothing to do with anything else and yes i did come here straight specifico 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