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Text of the page (random words):
someonedreaming are you aware that there is no requirement for any prior discussion i know that sometimes people post comments like like there was no wp rfcbefore but a that section doesn t say what they think it does b nothing on the entire page says there has to be any such prior discussion and c even if it did it wouldn t be a valid reason for ending an rfc whatamidoing talk 19 29 9 august 2026 utc reply yes i know it s not required and i did not say that they should end the rfc just that they might want to consider prior discussion in the future it was the person who opened the discussion who chose to end it which i think counts as the question may be withdrawn by the poster under wp rfcend someonedreaming talk 20 37 9 august 2026 utc reply yes the op is allowed to end an rfc early this is because we want them to admit defeat early whenever that happens to be relevant prior discussion has many advantages but it s not always the right approach whatamidoing talk 02 13 10 august 2026 utc reply editor edit latest comment 5 days ago 7 comments 2 people in discussion davidbrownid is refusing to comply with wp rfc specifically present a neutral question for their rfc perhaps some other editors can talk sense into them the rfc process cannot be used to demand changes and to waste the time of editors they chose to ignore instead of resolving the issue stephenmacky1 talk 13 05 13 august 2026 utc reply stephenmacky1 i agree with the comments there the problems with that rfc question are a lack of clarity rather than neutrality rather than saying that this is a waste of time maybe you could figure out why the requested factual changes aren t being made and either make them if they re justified or explain why they re wrong e g if it s just one source that says that and multiple others say the opposite whatamidoing talk 16 45 13 august 2026 utc reply true well to be honest it was a misunderstanding the attitude of the editor who started the rfc did not help either when one starts a rfc it should be clear what is to be discussed stephenmacky1 talk 18 34 13 august 2026 utc reply i agree because purely as a practical matter if you re not clear about the point of the discussion it s unlikely that you ll get any useful responses not you specifically of course but anyone starting any discussions including rfcs whatamidoing talk 20 09 13 august 2026 utc reply as i correctly suspected it seems that this editor is not interested in input and only wants to impose their point of view in this edit they collapsed all comments including yours as spam and iq below 60 which is also a personal attack if this escalates further i will file a report at wp ani stephenmacky1 talk 11 05 15 august 2026 utc reply huh the account isn t even a month old and they ve already found collapsing templates does this article have a history of new accounts making this same proposal it might be someone s idea of a wikipedia clean start whatamidoing talk 19 58 15 august 2026 utc reply only ips have made such proposals as far as i know i have checked the archives at talk ivo andrić and there was another rfc from 2015 by an ip with a banned editor being mentioned as being behind the rfc considering that the discussion occurred years ago it is hard to know if there is a connection or not stephenmacky1 talk 20 16 15 august 2026 utc reply should the rfc process be used for controversial proposed merges of miscellaneous pages edit latest comment 5 days ago 1 comment 1 person in discussion you are invited to join the discussion at wikipedia village pump policy rfc merge nominations at mfd favifake talk 16 02 16 august 2026 utc reply faq at the top of this page edit latest comment 18 minutes ago 25 comments 7 people in discussion moved from user talk s marshall hi you didn t explain your revert and last time you did post a link but it is unclear why you chose that link because it appears to be irrelevant please explain thanks polygnotus talk 09 12 19 august 2026 utc reply hi it s not an essay it s a talk page header the number of users who object to it or think it s disputed is one 1 you please don t edit war to put on a tag that only you support s marshall t c 09 23 19 august 2026 utc reply neither of us have asked all wikipedians so we have no clue how many support including that tag there or not it is an essay in the sense that it contains advice and or opinions of one or more editors a faq is intended to provide an extra explanation of the page it belongs to a faq cannot introduce new rules based on one persons opinion without consensus its either unofficial and then it should probably be a userspace essay or at the very least tagged with the essay template or its official and then you need consensus and people should generally follow it a faq can explain consensus but not create the illusion of it out of thin air based on one person s opinion in this case this faq contains incorrect statements and it contradicts the page it belongs to do you see the problem polygnotus talk 09 29 19 august 2026 utc reply there s been text in that faq about non neutral questions for a very long time i objected to the previous text because it was flippant and inappropriate so i went to the talk page and discussed it and agreed compromise text you could do that if you wanted s marshall t c 09 38 19 august 2026 utc reply all three statements are true but i do not understand how they are relevant there s been text in that faq about non neutral questions for a very long time i have never understood the false belief that on wikipedia old problems cannot or must not be solved while new ones can i went to the talk page and discussed it and agreed compromise text but it would ve been better if you had removed it because the problem isn t flippancy the fact that it was so flippant actually made it more obvious that it was wrong you could do that if you wanted see wp own polygnotus talk 09 43 19 august 2026 utc reply apologies if i am missing something i am rather tired but i also still don t understand the editsummary you used here i get that it refers back to the previous editsummary which contains a link but i don t understand what part of the section it refers to is relevant polygnotus talk 09 47 19 august 2026 utc reply questions for the floor am i violating wp own by not allowing polygnotus to label wt rfc faq with essay does wt rfc faq in fact have consensus i say no and yes respectively polygnotus view is opposite your thoughts please s marshall t c 11 23 19 august 2026 utc reply assuming i am part of the floor 1 either i explained it badly or you misinterpreted but that wasn t what i was trying to say 2 only god knows and she isn t telling us i note that you again have not answered the questions and you haven t responded to the most interesting things i wrote it is rather difficult trying to understand your pov if you consistently refuse to explain it so we are in the awkward situation that you ve been repeatedly undoing improvements without giving a valid reason and you do not understand my pov and i do not understand your pov polygnotus talk 11 28 19 august 2026 utc reply you want to be able to summarily close and delist rfcs if you don t approve of the question and i don t think you should be able to do that you re not the rfc police understand my pov now s marshall t c 16 54 19 august 2026 utc reply 1 no violation looks like standard wp brd to me dw31415 talk 11 46 19 august 2026 utc reply dw31415 yeah no one claimed that to be one dude is just wasting our time polygnotus talk 11 53 19 august 2026 utc reply hi polygnotus good to see you again please let s not rehash whether the current page and faq has consensus it would be better i think to hash out if how an rfc can be procedural close d dw31415 talk 12 04 19 august 2026 utc reply dw31415 yeah i missed you guys i have the rfctracker script installed and quite a few unnecessary rfcs get closed which saves the community time it shows the top5 most recent rfc tagged edits in the sidebar below everything else which is convenient if you want to keep an eye on them for an example of an rfc being closed see here if an impasse of a sufficient size has not been reached then we should use the less expensive wp 3o options available to us polygnotus talk 12 29 19 august 2026 utc reply 1 no polygnotus reference to wp own was ingermane on the other hand your phrasing by not allowing polygnotus to has shades of ownership a non ownership description of your editing would be by removing essay 2 that s a big question we normally presume there is consensus just because the text is there in the face of every wikipedian s ability to change it it would be more appropriate for someone to challenge the presumed consensus by making a specific objection to something here so i am going to skip this question you seem to have missed the most important question here does essay belong on this page i say no that tag is never appropriate for the faq subpage of a talk page if the subpage is in fact an essay it should be moved somewhere else bryan henderson giraffedata talk 15 01 19 august 2026 utc reply i agree this faq should not have an essay tag because no faq should have an essay tag there is a consensus to have a faq page at the top of this talk page there is also a consensus for this faq page to have information about what to do when someone believes that an rfc question is non neutral or not brief there is no consensus for removing these questions whatamidoing talk 15 21 19 august 2026 utc reply we normally presume there is consensus just because the text is there in the face of every wikipedian s ability to change it so i am consenting to the existence of hoaxes and factual errors and typos just because i haven t found and fixed them yet this line of thinking doesn t make sense to me and its basically exclusively used when better arguments cannot be found in my experience polygnotus talk 18 07 19 august 2026 utc reply you are not consenting your opinion just isn t included is there any line of thinking that makes sense to you in which consensus plays a role on wikipedia something where opinions of editors i e everyone in the world who have not stated them are considered this talk page section asks the naked question whether an entire faq containing answers to 10 supposedly frequently asked questions has consensus and you seem to be arguing that we have to assume the answer is no because we don t know what every editor thinks about this bryan henderson giraffedata talk 15 20 20 august 2026 utc reply so if the opinion from people who aren t aware of something isn t included how can you presume consensus for the continued existence of a problem almost no one is aware of just because the problem hasn t been fixed yet shouldn t those people be excluded s marshall used the old trick of not engaging with an actual debate and then asking other people to comment on a straw man why are you falling for it generally speaking debating straw men arguments is just a waste of time if you want to understand something or someone do the work if not don t polygnotus talk 15 32 20 august 2026 utc reply so if the opinion from people who aren t aware of something isn t included how can you presume consensus for the continued existence how that s easy you just do that s what presuming is all about i draw your attention to the difference between presuming and believing and the reason we presume consensus is practicality you didn t answer my question as to if you have an alternative line of thinking that allows us to base everything on wikipedia on consensus and i can t think of one if we can t say there is consensus for something unless we know for sure it is the consensus of every wikipedia editor then we can t use consensus at all in practice we always presume consensus on wikipedia just based on comments actually made that s why rfcs exist to slightly reduce the possibility that someone hasn t commented simply because he doesn t know the problem exists s marshall used the old trick of not engaging with an actual debate and then asking other people to comment on a straw man i don t think that s what actually happened especially if i assume good faith as you should as well though s marshall may have missed the fact that you reject wikipedia s system of establishing consensus without knowing the position of every wikipedian you do twice indicate that you don t think there is consensus for the content of the faq based on one person s opinion without consensus cannot create the illusion of consensus out of thin air so that is not a straw man bryan henderson giraffedata talk 16 41 21 august 2026 utc reply the fact that you reject wikipedia s system of establishing consensus that is another straw man in my experience once people start posting straw man arguments it takes a lot of time and energy to get them to actually try to understand the other side polygnotus talk 17 22 21 august 2026 utc reply giraffedata if the subpage is in fact an essay it should be moved somewhere else exactly a faq cannot introduce new rules based on one persons opinion without consensus its either unofficial and then it should probably be a userspace essay or at the very least tagged with the essay template or its official and then you need consensus a faq can explain consensus but not create the illusion of it out of thin air based on one person s opinion either anyone should be allowed to improve it and no one can own it or it should be a userspace essay that is exactly the problem here polygnotus talk 18 09 19 august 2026 utc reply what rule do you think is being introduced in the faq dw31415 talk 19 48 19 august 2026 utc reply polygnotus maybe you ve done this elsewhere and i ve just missed it but would you mind spelling out what particularly in the faqs you disagree with or think shouldn t be there extraordinary writ talk 04 58 21 august 2026 utc reply yup but gimme a sec i am doing 17 things at once i also have to think about if i actually want to do something about it generally i prefer having a normal conversation wherein both parties work to understand the other but sometimes thats difficult polygnotus talk 05 11 21 august 2026 utc reply could it be possible to create a page like wikipedia faq rfc to make the faq more reachable an example of a random faq edit faqs the grid talk 18 33 21 august 2026 utc reply retrieved from https en wikipedia org w index php title wikipedia_talk requests_for_comment oldid 1370537887 category wikiproject dispute resolution this page was last edited on 21 august 2026 at 18 33 utc page was rendered with parsoid text is available under the creative commons attribution sharealike 4 0 license additional terms may apply by using this site you agree to the terms of use and privacy policy wikipedia is a registered trademark of the wikimedia foundation inc a non profit organization privacy policy about wikipedia disclaimers contact 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