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Text of the page (random words):
tion of this page to address perceived bias and better reflect the more thorough java programming language article in addition i may have inadvertantly inserted my own bias by promulgating the less pure meme please feel free to do what you will gortsack 20 47 17 april 2006 utc reply you edits were on target you just didn t go far enough i worked on it some more but it was pretty poorly worded compared to the java programming language article that most of this content was taken from doug bell talk contrib 18 58 19 april 2006 utc reply problems edit latest comment 19 years ago 7 comments 7 people in discussion i disagree very strongly with the following statement made in the article standalone applications have fallen out of favor as computing has switched to a web based model new programming techniques have produced powerful web applications the advent of portable drives knoppix etc contradicts the preceding statement the demand for small self contained and portable binaries is higher than ever take for example utorrent the following paragraph contradicts itself and my own personal experience is that 1 5 and 5 0 apps don t get along with just one jre so i purposefully avoid all java to preclude 500mb of jre because of incompatibilities between different versions of the jre rather than rely on pre installed jres many applications install their own jres in order to function predictably java applets can detect which version of java they are running on and the high level of compatibility between different versions of java ensures it is a simple matter to support older versions of java whilst making use of the additional features of later versions preceding unsigned comment added by ieopo talk contribs 16 13 5 june 2006 utc reply i ve found a high level of compatibility between java versions to the extent that the same byte code runs on all versions see clesh for one example needs broadband also services like google mail and in fact google itself have become more popular and these are web based applications stephen b streater 22 01 5 june 2006 utc reply why isnt ooo being mentioned as a good example for a nice java desktop app preceding unsigned comment added by 84 58 129 210 talk 13 55 5 july 2006 utc reply because it isn t one its a c app that happens to use a tiny bit of java for its scripting functionaility plugwash 23 14 7 july 2006 utc reply i have suffered from the jre incompatibility problems referred to above but not being an expert in java i ve added cleanup tags to two sections and added fact tags to some statements in fact some compatibilty claims in the article are directly counter to my experiences but i guess that would be or wikianon 11 04 22 september 2006 utc reply i do not understand what is meant by the criticism section when it states that java necessarily uses a user s ip address to allow java to function i ve used java for years and don t know what this means there is a bug opened on java 1 5 0 through 1 5 9 i believe where calling some network functions tried doing a reverse dns lookup on the remote ip address but this was a bug that has been since fixed not a feature of the langauage there are plenty of valid critiques of java i just don t think this is one of them factually if not clarified this section should be removed dov wasserman 19 19 28 march 2007 utc reply i put a citation needed after the sentence and i agree that it seems to be original research and maybe false i propose to delete the entire criticism section it contains only this sentence if nobody is able to cite sources in a few days plus even if there are sources i think the sentence should be clarified put in the general criticism of java article the sentence says exactly the contrary as a lot of sources always say java is generally a secure language hervegirod 21 57 28 march 2007 utc reply don t merge edit latest comment 20 years ago 1 comment 1 person in discussion we tried having the top level java article and the programming language as one article and it was frankly a mess with the java as a whole people constantly fighting over what the article should contain with the java programming language people the preceding unsigned comment was added by plugwash talk contribs 23 21 15 september 2006 utc i agree so i m removing the merge tags someone can always readd the merge and include reasons that might gain consensus in the two talk pages wikianon 11 22 22 september 2006 utc reply version history edit latest comment 19 years ago 2 comments 1 person in discussion i think that this article is too long why not split the version history part in another article to link with this one or at least keep only the beginning of the chapter in this article and put the detailed j2se 1 0 to 7 0 to the new article hervegirod 09 33 28 october 2006 utc reply no answer i took it as a yes hervegirod 11 44 4 november 2006 utc reply gpl edit latest comment 19 years ago 4 comments 2 people in discussion is there actually any official sun download marked up as gpl yet if not then imo we are jumping the gun saying that java has been made gpl plugwash 00 54 16 november 2006 utc reply ok i just took a look at https openjdk dev java net and it seems that the vm and the compiler are already gpl but the class libraries which are arguablly the most valuable part of java to have under a free software license are not going to be until early 2007 plugwash 00 57 16 november 2006 utc reply javac and hotspot are gpl now and they really are valuable pieces of software think of the speed of sun s vm compared to other free vms for example hervegirod 12 02 25 december 2006 utc reply javac is very low value the java language to java bytecode conversion isn t that complex and there are perfectly acceptable free compilers out there hotspot is more valuable but i d imagine it has a fairly strong dependency on suns class libraries which are still non free if and when we see a buildable jre made up of opensource software then that will be a very significant moment but what we have been given so far is practically worthless on its own plugwash 23 12 5 april 2007 utc reply licensing edit latest comment 19 years ago 1 comment 1 person in discussion there really shouldn t be a past and present division about free software licensing of sun s jre or class library because it still isn t free and according to sun it won t be free until at least march even if when sun java becomes free the before and after sections would probably not be useful for such a small set of information also in the english language saying java wasn t free software past tense can imply that it has changed from non free to free which wouldn t be accurate if it wasn t free software and it still isn t then you would use a current tense or if you must refer to the past has never been would be clear the licensing section also needed some major cleanups in a variety of ways i ve tried to make the section more concise and clear without removing anything important but if i did remove something important please re add it rather than reverting the entire edit 64 59 144 21 02 05 21 december 2006 utc reply desktop use edit latest comment 18 years ago 2 comments 2 people in discussion two of the claims are not fact based and maybe not relevant tools used to develop graphical java applications are fragmented and none is as popular as microsoft s visual studio suite for developing windows applications i never seen any comment about this on the web especially to explain why java is not widely used on the desktop this also appears to be a very strange claim that microsoft s visual studio suite is more widely used for developing graphical java applications than eclipse i suspect 5 years ago this may have been close to the truth but i would be amazed if it is true now netbeans for teh win in all seriousness though there are plenty of excellent free solutions out there such as netbeans and eclipse without fighting over which of the free solutions is better netbeans would win that hands down anyway it is redicilous to assume that esp without statistical evidence a solution that costs tons of money and is primarily meant for net c would be the ideal of preferred development means for java my apologies for being anonymous btw p there are multiple versions of the jre which can introduce compatibility issues for java applications installed on a system this is the same with any other language platform as c python perl even flash and as java is for the most part upward compatible especially at the binary level i think it is not a problem also i never seen this explained as a weakness of java which could reduce its desktop adoption except on wikipedia the claims seen on the net are java memory usage java mostly don t follow platform gui guidelines extra step to deploy java based apps even if it is the same with a lot of other frameworks and java being non free in the past hervegirod 12 34 27 may 2007 utc reply isn t this a reference to the old conflict between the microsoft java vm and the sun java vm in that case there really were incompatibilities which imho was a pretty shitty thing to do on ms s part however the lawyers settled this and now sun s vm is considered the real one and others that are developed open source ones for example are modelled after the sun one for compatibility especially since the vast amount of platforms on which a java vm is supported this seems to be a thing of the past just my 2 cents preceding unsigned comment added by 80 61 108 218 talk 14 05 5 march 2008 utc reply don t forget the rest of the world edit latest comment 19 years ago 1 comment 1 person in discussion if this article is going to talk about the language api that sun created then it should mention each of the implementations java is a successful technology and has fostered a community and a market of it s own the current text makes it look like java is something that only sun is interested in and no one else wants to feels a need to or sees a reason to develop this technology which obviously isn t true if on the other hand this article is to be limited to sun s java implementations then it should be renamed as such and the discussion of the general java technology which sun develops defines should be moved to an article that is broad and inclusive i think the broad approach is better aiming to make this a top level article for java rather than limiting it to the overlap of the technology and the company to broaden this info can be found on free java implementations about gnu classpath gnu compiler for java kaffe apache harmony etc there is also blackdown java and probably others gronky 15 30 25 june 2007 utc reply merge edit latest comment 19 years ago 1 comment 1 person in discussion convention is that merge discussion takes place on the mergee but adding a note here as a heads yp these articles cover the same ground and regardless of the final title there should only be one of them chris cunningham 10 17 11 september 2007 utc reply requested move edit latest comment 18 years ago 9 comments 6 people in discussion i propose that this article be moved over the redirect java platform the current disambig parenthetical sun is self defeating in that it is highly ambiguous as it could be interpreted as being the name of a star java platform is the official proper name of the subject being addressed in the article and will not require disambiguation for the foreseeable future if platform is too specific other candidates might be java software or java computing in any case sun has to go ham pastrami talk 05 24 23 april 2008 utc reply rename to java computing since platform requires a person know what a computing platform is instead of say an oil platform off the coast of the island of java 70 55 200 157 talk 03 43 24 april 2008 utc reply yes i think java computing makes the most sense klausness talk 10 05 24 april 2008 utc reply java platform is not an official proper name it s a random subset of the various official proper names that the platform currently goes by it s no less contrived than java sun both java software and java computing are ambiguous because of the existence of java programming language i d settle for java software platform as a compromise but the other suggestions thus far are definitely inappropriate chris cunningham not at work talk 12 13 24 april 2008 utc reply that makes sense i like java software platform brainsik talk 22 30 24 april 2008 utc reply relisting as java software platform which i support andrewa talk 00 53 29 april 2008 utc reply in all its incarnations it is known as java platform appended by a particular edition they are all referred to as java platform however it is blatantly obvious that this is an appropriate title though whether it is the best title for the wiki is another question if you know of any other nomenclature that is used consistently in official documents please share some examples with us java software platform is fine by me as the only difference is using the trademark vs using a generic phrase also i don t consider java programming language to be a problem for ambiguity as the language is in fact part of the platform that is if you wanted to reference the java language you would not be incorrect in linking this article even though a more specific article exists ham pastrami talk 05 10 29 april 2008 utc reply errr sun doesn t hold a trademark for java platform as for consistency there s really no such thing in this particular case the only constant is java so rather than second guessing we should just use java and disambiguate it chris cunningham not at work talk 07 02 29 april 2008 utc reply wikipedia naming conventions don t place any emphasis on what is used in official documents whether consistently or otherwise rather they focus on what the greatest number of english speakers would most easily recognize which may or may not be the same thing while i respect your opinion that it is blatantly obvious that the correct title is java platform some of us disagree andrewa talk 09 10 29 april 2008 utc reply java s critisism edit latest comment 18 years ago 2 comments 2 people in discussion why is there nothing about java s criticism for example many people complain that java runs to slow and teaches bad habits to beginning programmers bit101 talk 01 05 25 may 2008 utc reply there s already a whole article devoted to criticism of java there s also a smaller criticism section in the java programming language article so i think we have enough material on this subject adding more sections about that would duplicate already existing material i have linked the criticism of java article in the see also section hervegirod talk 08 55 25 may 2008 utc reply image copyright problem with image java logo svg edit latest comment 18 years ago 1 comment 1 person in discussion the image image java logo svg is used in this article under a claim of fair use but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meet...
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