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Text of the page (random words):
ments say financial statements are after all a primary source which means we cannot perform any sort of interpretation or analysis on it aquillion talk 04 57 21 july 2026 utc reply i assumed that the quoted words were actual direct quotations rfcbefore is important because it s a list of ways to avoid having an rfc at all whatamidoing talk 06 17 21 july 2026 utc reply llm rfc problems edit latest comment 7 days ago 4 comments 2 people in discussion the op at talk antioch international movement of churches rfc content and phrasing for life groups and impact on local community appears to be using llm both for the proposed changes and for the discussions in the rfc i m involved in the content dispute and do not plan to take any actions myself this rfc feels hopelessly compromised since the proposed text would violate wp nollm and multiple content policies as demonstrated line by line in the rfc but perhaps someone would have an ideas about how to salvage it or failing that how to resolve this dispute whatamidoing talk 20 35 17 july 2026 utc reply i can just close it as needing to be workshopped especially as op was indeffed user bluethricecreamman talk contribs 18 35 21 july 2026 utc reply actually after seeing two consecutive rfcs fail at talk reform uk due to extensive llm issues do we want any specific guidance for that it may help to close such rfcs especially for involved editors user bluethricecreamman talk contribs 19 45 13 august 2026 utc reply if people do not follow wikipedia talk page guidelines llm generated when writing the opening statement of an rfc what makes you think that repeating the same prohibition here would change their behavior whatamidoing talk 20 07 13 august 2026 utc reply rfc about tags edit latest comment 1 month ago 13 comments 5 people in discussion i am trying to deal with a dispute at the dispute resolution noticeboard which seems to be mostly a dispute about a multiple issues tag on an article and the tags within the tag and there has been discussion of an rfc i have said that i am ready to help prepare an rfc about changes to the article content that might resolve the issues that are flagged by the tags however my opinion is that either moderated discussion about tags or an rfc about tags will be a waste of community time that would be better spent discussing whether or how to improve the article does anyone else either agree that an rfc about tagging will be a waste of community time or think that such an rfc may be helpful does anyone have any other ideas about how tagging disputes should be addressed robert mcclenon talk 03 46 19 july 2026 utc reply fights over which tags belong in an article should ideally be converted into discussions over how to fix the problems so that tags are not needed whatamidoing talk 05 20 19 july 2026 utc reply i assume that you user whatamidoing are agreeing with what i said above that tagging disputes would be better spent improving the article robert mcclenon talk 07 30 20 july 2026 utc reply yes whatamidoing talk 19 12 20 july 2026 utc reply i think that a tag is evidence that the article is disputed and generally should remain unless the dispute is resolved some disputes are utterly intractable and that makes semi permanent tags ok most controversial articles have tags for quite a lot of the time and some have very old tags options for those desperate to remove it are a compromise til the other side is happy or b live with the tag tags aren t a big deal and don t usually justify the rather high cost cost of a community wide rfc in themselves although if the underlying dispute is causing other strife then one might be necessary s marshall t c 17 16 19 july 2026 utc reply in this case the maintenance tags appear to represent the view that an article about the assassination of a modern head of state doesn t deserve such a detailed article we all have our own ideas about what an ideal article would sound like but i think in this case an rfc can easily settle the question of whether assassination of park chung hee contains too much detail and too many quotations for reference the disputed article is just 60 the length of the fa assassination of john f kennedy it contains 11 short direct quotations compared to about 75 quotations in the jfk article there are a couple of other fas about 20th century assassinations of heads of state to compare against including arrest and assassination of ngo dinh diem assassination of talaat pasha and assassination of william mckinley at a glance i suspect that they are all longer more detailed and contain more quotations than the disputed article whatamidoing talk 19 15 19 july 2026 utc reply it is true that the immediate issue is about that article however sometimes i will ask about a type of situation rather than a specific dispute because i am looking for principles that will also apply to other disputes of the same type i have dealt with other tagging disputes in the past and will deal with other tagging disputes in the future robert mcclenon talk 07 30 20 july 2026 utc reply i agree with whatamidoing and s marshal when trying to resolve a tagging dispute see if you can change the focus of the conversation away from arguing about the tag itself and towards discussing how to improve the article so the tag is no longer needed blueboar talk 11 37 20 july 2026 utc reply or discussing whether any improvement is called for whether there is any way to satisfy whoever put the tag there that wouldn t degrade the article wouldn t that usually be the issue when there is a dispute over whether a maintenance tag belongs there do people actually want to discuss the tag usage per se separate from whether the maintenance indicated is needed bryan henderson giraffedata talk 18 35 20 july 2026 utc reply i ve seen a few disputes over the tag usage per se that usually looks like someone saying yes the article has a problem with ____ but we don t need an ugly tag to say so this isn t even always unreasonable a short stub doesn t need template expand section or template lead too short however the dispute is almost always over whether the article has the stated problem alice adds a ___ tag because she thinks the article has a problem with ____ and bob removes it because he thinks the article does not have a problem with ____ the pov family of templates also has a problem with people using them as a way to warn the reader that they disapprove of the current state of the article there are special badge of shame rules for those outlined on the template s doc pages this problem is also addressed towards the end of wikipedia no disclaimers whatamidoing talk 19 20 20 july 2026 utc reply i agree with waid that it s almost always over whether the article has the stated problem if there is a good faith genuine dispute about whether the article is pov or too long or just badly written a disputed tag is appropriate s marshall t c 20 28 20 july 2026 utc reply and that is really the discussion over how or if the article can be fixed that some here have said is preferable to a discussion about the tag itself it doesn t matter if some people think the article has the problem and others don t if it can be fixed to satisfy everyone but i realize my earlier comment overlooks the most common case where people would rather discuss whether the tag should be there than how or if the article could be changed to eliminate the need for the tag nobody s willing to do the work a discussion of how to fix an article so nobody feels the need for a tag is moot if nobody has time to fix it many times these tags represent a request for significant work that s why an editor put the tag there instead of just fixing the article preceding unsigned comment added by giraffedata talk contribs 20 48 20 july 2026 utc reply yes it s sometimes a request for a lot of work whatamidoing talk 20 58 20 july 2026 utc reply rfc framing threshold question on undue weight and possible promotional content edit latest comment 20 days ago 3 comments 2 people in discussion i m looking for outside input on the framing of an rfc for solo role playing game i came to the article via the role playing game project space and found the content promotional in nature there is an active discussion on the talk page just among a few editors the current proposed rfc focuses on questions such as which games and platforms should be included how examples should be selected and how much weight they should receive however i think it may be skipping a threshold issue should the rfc first ask whether the article should give prominence to specific games and platforms at all particularly where that prominence could raise concerns about undue weight or promotional appearance i d appreciate feedback on whether adding this as a separate rfc question would improve the discussion coffeeurbanite talk 17 07 21 july 2026 utc reply coffeeurbanite having glanced over the talk page i think your notion of promotionalism exceeds the typical community view mentioning an example in a single sentence or even two is not the same as giving prominence to it first the question you proposed there of should the article give undue weight to is a non starter you might as well write should we violate major content policies there s no need to ask such a question we all know what the answer will be the actual locus of the dispute appears to be closer to does mentioning examples of games violate the npov policy with a side order of does having a few sentences about why people might play these games violate the npov policy the answers to your questions above are which games and platforms should be included whichever games and platforms are discussed in the reliable sources how examples should be selected whichever games and platforms illustrate the point being made these are usually discussed in the reliable sources how much weight they should receive the same as any other subject give more weight to whichever games and platforms are discussed in the reliable sources something that occasionally surprises editors is that there is literally no way to figure out how to solve this dispute without digging into the reliable sources if someone is saying oh noes they re mentioning the name of a commercial product that s promotional then they re doing it wrong if someone is saying this article keeps going on and on and on about bob s widget game and when i look at reliable sources such as bob s widget game is never mentioned but alice s alchemy is called iconic and chris s celebrities is described as the most popular ever so i think we should mention those two instead of or in addition to bob s then they re doing it right whatamidoing talk 17 48 21 july 2026 utc reply whatamidoing thank you for taking the time to respond i see your point and i thought you explained it brilliantly coffeeurbanite talk 01 19 1 august 2026 utc reply rfc in byzantine empire edit latest comment 24 days ago 4 comments 4 people in discussion i have a dispute in the talk page of byzantine empire regarding the inclusion of not of specific information rfc requires the statement should be neutral and brief is it a valid rfc if i ask should the sentence in section language a similar process of linguistic hellenization occurred in asia minor whose inhabitants had mostly abandoned their indigenous languages for greek by early byzantine times changed to a similar process of linguistic hellenization occurred in asia minor whose inhabitants of various ancestries including lydian carian phrygian isaurian pisidian lycaonian lycian among others had mostly abandoned their indigenous languages in favor for greek by early byzantine times 1 breadandhumus talk 06 28 28 july 2026 utc reply a more neutral question would be should specific ancestries be included in _____ where blank is either a description of the sentence or better yet the section you can add the current as an option a and your proposed as option b options should appear after the time stamp as a nudge i suggest you try listing the ancestries in a separate sentence your proposal is a bit long dw31415 talk 12 00 28 july 2026 utc reply i can t see how this is any more neutral than the original proposal and it is much more vague if one weren t aware of the existing dispute one would have no idea from should specific ancestries be included in the language section what the question is about whereas with the original i get a pretty good idea of it bryan henderson giraffedata talk 14 44 28 july 2026 utc reply should we change x to y is neutral and brief enough whatamidoing talk 18 47 28 july 2026 utc reply references horrocks geoffrey 2013 greek a history of the language and its speakers p 208 isbn 978 1118785157 though the anatolian plateau inland had begun to come under the influence of this dominant culture only after alexander s conquests the descendants of indigenous peoples such as the lycians pamphylians sidetians isaurians pisidians lycaonians carians lydians phrygians and cappadocians as well as immigrant groups of celts goths jews and persians were also fairly well hellenized by the 6th century script for opening rfc s edit latest comment 24 days ago 1 comment 1 person in discussion i ve created a script that can be used to open and appeal rfc s among other things see user billedmammal discussion billedmammal talk 10 38 28 july 2026 utc reply rfc process question edit latest comment 11 days ago 7 comments 3 people in discussion at talk vladimir lenin an rfc was opened myself and another editor pointed out that there was no proceeding discussion on the topic and a few other editors made short votes then the opening editor withdrew the rfc but did so by completely removing the rfc comments and creating a new discussion over it is that proper procedure i feel like the closed discussion should have been retained but i m not sure how to put it back without removing later additions or messing up attribution someonedreaming talk 16 43 9 august 2026 utc reply someonedreaming wp rfcend says to end an rfc manually remove the rfc tag from the talk page legobot will remove the discussion from the central lists on its next run when legobot automatically ends an rfc because of its age it will remove the rfc tag if you are also closing the discussion you should do this in the same edit it says nothing about removing comments by contrast wp tpo says the basic rule with exceptions outlined below is not to edit or remove others posts without their permission i don t think any of the exceptions apply furthermore wp redact says if anyone has already replied to or quoted your original comment changing it should be avoided red rose64 talk 18 49 9 august 2026 utc reply okay that s what i thought how do i fix the talk page then someonedreaming talk 20 38 9 august 2026 utc reply someone needs to restore the prior discussion comments but not the old rfc tag they can be boxed up with discussion top or similar templates they can even be restored straight...
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