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adam and christ sin and grace that itself will help you realize why god has given you the command not to exasperate your children sinclair ferguson so my husband and i came out of the closet about our decision not to spank many factors contributed to our decision and the first consideration was the bible spanking is it biblical this is the big question because for many in the spanking camp the issue does not come down to practical results or passion for spanking for spanking s sake it becomes an issue of being faithful to the bible if the bible taught parents never to take their kids to the circus parents would comply not because they found any obvious dangers evils present in the circus itself but because the bible forbids it with spanking there are indeed some who say it works best practically and others who say it s one of those god s ways are higher than our ways concepts but what does the bible actually say on the subject of course there are a myriad of interpretations of the bible some in conflict with each other so i am not claiming that i am just so smart that i ve figured it all out but based on my studying praying and conviction i am settled on how to proceed for our family on this issue so there are six verses in proverbs that appear to support corporal punishment for children proverbs 13 24 he who withholds his rod hates his son but he who loves him disciplines him diligently proverbs 19 18 discipline your son while there is hope and do not desire his death proverbs 22 15 foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child the rod of discipline will remove it far from him proverbs 23 13 do not withhold correction from a child for if you beat him with a rod he will not die proverbs 23 14 you shall beat him with a rod and deliver his soul from hell sheol proverbs 29 15 the rod and reproof give wisdom but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame these six verses alone make up the pro spanking position no where else and especially no where in the new testament are we told to spank children proverbs should be read through a couple of lenses one it s original relationship to the law moses the reigning law of the time and then through the higher teachings of jesus found in the new testament there are two main views among the non spanking christian crowds and they often overlap 1 proverbs a book of wisdom written in correlation to the law of moses that contains poetry metaphors similes and hyperbole renders the infamous rod verses as symbolic imagery not meant to be taken literally the rod is not meant to advocate corporal punishment but represents a symbol of authority guidance training protection and teaching thus a parent is not required to dish out physical retribution for bad behavior in order to be faithful to meaning of rod imagery portrayed in proverbs 2 proverbs though inspired by god is still part of the old testament which has been fulfilled and christians are now called to a higher standard reflected in the way of jesus christ thus physical retribution is now superseded much like the eye for an eye mentality and stoning prescriptions for sinful behavior were superseded by the higher standards of christ both of these camps like to point out that so called literalists do not even apply these verses literally more on that later those are the alternate understandings of these scriptures the next posts will examine the evidence for these views posted by tia lynn at 4 24 pm 6 comments labels bible interpretation parenting wednesday march 3 2010 we re coming out of the closet and it may be the second hardest closet to come out of amidst conservative christian culture my husband and i have made a commitment not to spank our child this decision has come off the heels of much research experience prayer and conviction i considered keeping this information private as i do with much of a my personal life but child rearing is uncharted territory for us and i know i need the support of my friends family and faith community i don t care if hillary clinton said it or not i do believe it takes a village to raise a child well i am a new mother and i do not have all the answers to parenting and i doubt anyone new or seasoned really does so while we are confident and settled on our decision for our family we openly acknowledge that we have no idea what we are in for that we will make tons of mistakes along the way and will not always live up to the disciplinary ideals we have chosen like sailors embarking upon unknown waters we have prepared for the trip with patient sails directed rudders gentle oars and a firm steering wheel but choose to forgo the use of jet propellers that promise to get us farther faster because they also happen to make everyone on board seasick so this is not an anti spanking tirade to condemn parents who do choose to spank their children i have many dear friends who spank and i admire most of them very much as parents for their love and commitment to the well being and healthy development of their children but growing up in the evangelical church spanking is not only presented as a disciplinary tool but the disciplinary tool mandated by god some teach that parents who do not spank are in sin that they hate their children and are committing a grave disservice against their children in such circles spanking as become synonymous with discipline therefore if one does not spank one also does not discipline this reality makes choosing not to spank a very fearful decision it creates an environment where parents become inclined to hide the fact that they do not spank lest they endure the barrage of concerned lectures passionate rebukes and head shaking i told you so s every time their child misbehaves unlike most of my posts this is not me on a soapbox trying to convince others to take a certain position but sharing our journey in coming to this decision in hopes that my friends even the ones who will vehemently disagree will grant us their support and to encourage others wrestling with the same issue the next few posts will elaborate on how and why we have come to this decision our reasons for not spanking can be divided into three main categories 1 biblical understanding 2 personal conviction personal goals 3 personal weakness more to come soon posted by tia lynn at 3 29 pm 70 comments labels bible interpretation parenting saturday february 27 2010 playing cards with mark driscoll when i was a teenager i was introduced to a card game with the uncouth name bullshit the game is basically about leading or misleading the other players to believe that you possess a better hand than you actually do once a player has caught on to another player s false claims they call the bluff by shouting bullshit i loved this game because it created a space in which one did not have to mince words about obvious and purposeful false claims you simply announced these false claims for what they were at times it seems like sectors of the church engage in a death match competition to prove who is more right more orthodox more faithful more biblical etc and often each side will over estimate their own hand and underestimate the hand of the others and every now and again someone will so grossly misrepresent that the time comes to stand up lay all the cards on the table and call the false claims what they are bullshit and i am having one those moments with none other than mark driscoll because of the following quote from 2008 s church leadership booklet without blushing paul is simply stating that when it comes to leading in the church women are unfit because they are more gullible and easier to deceive than men while many irate women have disagreed with his assessment through the years it does appear from this that such women who fail to trust his instruction and follow his teaching are much like their mother eve and are well intended but ill informed before you get all emotional like a woman in hearing this please consider the content of the women s magazines at your local grocery store that encourages liberated women in our day to watch porno with their boyfriends master oral sex for men who have no intention of marrying them pay for their own dates in the name of equality spend an average of three fourths of their childbearing years having sex but trying not to get pregnant and abort 1 3 of all babies and ask yourself if it doesn t look like the serpent is still trolling the garden and that the daughters of eve aren t gullible in pronouncing progress liberation and equality p 43 like i said pure and unadulterated bullshit i usually take little interest in mark driscoll though i ve familiarized myself with his work for the sake of being well rounded sometimes i come across something so ridiculous that i might make it a facebook status and then move on i clearly am not mark driscoll s target audience i am fiercely egalitarian fiercely nonreformed and have found a home in emergent circles so i don t waste a lot of time being outraged at driscoll since i suspect he enjoys the persecution but when i came across the quote above i was both irked and intrigued for the following reasons 1 how blatantly hateful and ignorant it is not very surprising but irking 2 how poorly it was thought out and argued 3 and most importantly how it could and should serve as a wake up call for more reasonable complementarians on how they interpret 1 tim 2 11 14 first off driscoll s appeal to current women magazines to prove women are easier to deceive than men is probably the most dishonest part mark driscoll and his engaged with culture self should know better than anyone that men s magazines are selling just as many lies and just as many men believe them including the one about true masculinity being about tough guy violence prone western notions of maleness in fact current top ten lists place both playboy and penthouse as two of the most popular men s magazine in which women are portrayed as voiceless brainless eye candy for men to use for sexual gratification and then other popular magazines such as maxim esquire and gq teach men their worth and the worth of others depends on good looks money fine clothing current style and how much stuff one can accumulate maxim just featured an article entitled how to cheat and not get caught now should i uphold the lowest form of male directed media and apply it to my brothers in christ working to bring about god s kingdom who actively work against such mindsets of course not so while driscoll s magazine anecdote is clearly ludicrous i am more interested in his lead point that the reason women are declared unfit to lead in the bible is because they are gullible easily deceived and still paying for eve s sin as clearly expressed by the lord via the apostle paul and i want to applaud mark driscoll for coming clean on this because most comps who i admire for being as compassionate and as generous to women as their theology allows should find these remarks very troubling indeed not only because they are extremely offensive and sexist but because it is the logical conclusion of this kind of theology if one wants to read the verses in 1 timothy 2 11 14 as is without considering the immediate context of the letter the larger cultural context of the time and the linguistic controversies that have plagued these verses for centuries and apply these verses literally and universally then one must also embrace the reasons for the command if one wants to continue to exclude women from teaching or having authority over men because the bible says so then one must also accept the reasons given for why they are excluded mark driscoll does exactly this preaching that women are easily deceived and are still under the shadow of eve s failing most complementarians teach that the restrictions placed on women are about divinely mandated roles and gender hierarchy serves as a picture of christ and the church and so forth but never would they or most of comps anyway dare vocalize that women are restricted from teaching men or having authority in the church because women s very essence renders them dumber than men and it s a continued punishment because of eve and yet that is the only choice the as is approach leaves a reader with driscoll brings to light though probably unintentionally the quandary many comps find themselves in how to keep preaching against women teaching men or having authority in the church without having to teach that women are fundamentally and irreversibly inept for the task compared to men my complementarian brothers and sisters if you want to continue to exclude women from teaching and having authority in the church based on the verses in 1 timothy then do as mark driscoll does and actually teach that women in their very essence are dumber than men because they are more susceptible to deception by their very nature and must still be held accountable for eve s sin because the only bigger bullshit move than actually believing women are inherently gullible and more susceptible to deception than men is to still continue excluding women from leadership positions based on one part of a scripture while rejecting the reasons given for their exclusion in the very next part of the scripture posted by tia lynn at 2 53 pm 15 comments labels women issues friday october 16 2009 a world without water halts in an age when man has forgotten his origins and is blind to even his most essential needs for survival water along with other resources has become the victim of his indifference rachel carson a few weeks ago a town nearby us toccoa experienced some heavy rainfall and storms which led to most of the water supply being contaminated or cut off from the town s residents for a few days the local grocery stores ran out of bottled water businesses and schools closed down and people had to migrate to friend s houses in neighboring towns to take showers use a toilet that flushed and get some clean drinking water the old saying is true sometimes you don t know what you have until it s gone since we are fortunate americans this loss of water was mostly a temporary inconvenience but for those few days seeing people experience what life without access to clean water is like namely our world coming to a screeching halt left quite an impression on me a couple of weeks later i attended rob bell s speaking tour drops like stars which will be the topic of a future post where something very exciting was introduced to me he informed his listeners to a unique non profit organization called charity water the founder jahsun a former entertainment networker got bored with the life of luxury and frivolity so he decided to dedicate his life to improving the quality of lives of the least of these around the world the brilliance of this organization is that 100 percent of donations go the ground work of providing clean water for the poorest people in the world all overhead costs are funded through separate donations mostly from the immensely w...