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their thinking and their senseless minds were darkened 22 claiming to be wise they became fools 23 and they exchanged the glory of the immortal god for images resembling a mortal human being or birds or four footed animals or reptiles 24 therefore god gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity to the degrading of their bodies among themselves 25 because they exchanged the truth about god for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the creator who is blessed forever amen 26 for this reason god gave them up to degrading passions their women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural 27 and in the same way also the men giving up natural intercourse with women were consumed with passion for one another men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error 28 and since they did not see fit to acknowledge god god gave them up to a debased mind and to things that should not be done 29 they were filled with every kind of wickedness evil covetousness malice full of envy murder strife deceit craftiness they are gossips 30 slanderers god haters f insolent haughty boastful inventors of evil rebellious toward parents 31 foolish faithless heartless ruthless 32 they know god s decree that those who practice such things deserve to die yet they not only do them but even applaud others who practice them reading this gives an interesting view of chastisement i think our tendency in reading this is to focus on verses 26 32 and think about these things in terms of the target of god s unhappiness with us as the source of god s wrath and certainly these actions are noted as sinful and depraved so there is some element of truth to that often enough we see lamentations of the world around us its immodesty and impurity the continued degradation of social norms that were previously founded on christian principles but are now redefined by secular humanism relativism and liberal progressivism we view all these things and think that surely chastisement cannot be far behind what we are missing i think is that these things are chastisement reading above the real sin that brought on chastisement is those who by their wickedness suppress the truth for though they knew god they did not honor him as god or give thanks to him they became futile in their thinking and their senseless minds were darkened claiming to be wise they became fools 23 and they exchanged the glory of the immortal god for images resembling a mortal human being or birds or four footed animals or reptiles ok so the last bullet point is a bit archaic but the modern equivalence of it is money self and power it is also anything we spend our time on that detracts us from god and the responsibilities he has given us to some extent we are all likely guilty of that a spiritual social decay does not start with sexual perversion or confusion it starts with a much more subtle turning from god it first starts by moving god out of the public square by discouraging prayer by being ungrateful by considering your own personal needs before the needs of others by greed by turning sunday into a day spent on yourself with maybe some little sliver of time for god or maybe not at some point the relationship with god changes but this change is a disaffection of the real valid relationship that we should have and becomes something of a fantasy when this becomes our own pervasive reality we ve lost our way pretty soon this whole thing morphs into either an unbelief or some weird belief that what we do doesn t really matter because god loves us and that s that our own wisdom in assessing our relationship with god is borne of just that our own wisdom and is not a reflection of the reality of what scripture has to say what the church teaches is true or from any study of the wisest of saints that went before us we decide that god is who we want him to be this is the real sin that separates us and invites chastisement the question is what does chastisement look like 24 therefore god gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity to the degrading of their bodies among themselves 25 because they exchanged the truth about god for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the creator who is blessed forever amen notice that in romans 1 we don t get into the sins of impurity until after the therefore the chastisement god sends us is not typically fire and brimstone it is ourselves apart from god until this time paul seems to be saying that god recognizes that we are weak and protects us against ourselves he knows what brings us emptiness heartbreak desolation and loneliness he doesn t want that for us so he helps us blesses us gives us the grace to deal with many of life s temptations and disorders he loves us but when we do not recognize any of this and we are ungrateful for it this is a sin against the very goodness of god himself when we decide that god can be secondary in our lives we are not loving god back the more and more we send god the message that we really don t care that he is an instrumental part of our lives and culture the more likely he will be to eventually give us what we desire as stupid as that desire may be paul writes that god gave them up in the lusts of their hearts paul does not say that god imposed those lusts god basically said ok you want to do things without me then go ahead one of the first evidences of this abandonment of god to ourselves is homosexual activity we too often fall into the trap of judging those who are imposing the acceptance of the homosexual agenda as a major root of the problem in this country in reality this is a fruit of the problems that led god to removing his blessings from us in the first place but accepting sexual impurity outside of marriage became the norm well before homosexuality became the social revolution of our time the latter does not happen without the former preceding it so it s hardly the case that we can start hurling stones only with the advent of the gay marriage agenda no the sexual revolution led to weaker families fewer children abortion on demand and the beginning of the end of a healthy and functioning society having made that bed god turned us over and gave us the direct evidence of his handing us over to ourselves with the acceptance and celebration of homosexuality to blame gays for chastisement without recognizing the sinfulness that brought is to the point of accepting it is like blaming the sinking of the boat on the last gallon of water that bubbled up through the hole in the side but it doesn t end there they were filled with every kind of wickedness evil covetousness malice full of envy murder strife deceit craftiness they are gossips 30 slanderers god haters f insolent haughty boastful inventors of evil rebellious toward parents 31 foolish faithless heartless ruthless 32 they know god s decree that those who practice such things deserve to die yet they not only do them but even applaud others who practice them the push for acceptance of the gay lifestyle started in earnest less than two decades ago we went from most people believing that marriage should be between a man and a woman to the supreme court signing off on it as law of the land we put our stamp of approval on this progress when we voted for barack obama the second time after this agenda became perfectly clear shortly thereafter the rest of society followed with basically that entire list and note the last line they not only do them but even applaud others who practice them think of the way christians are now considered bigoted for their beliefs and how courageous the practitioners of different sins are we openly encourage gay marriage as a good thing and even a godly thing those who are against abortion are labeled as haters of women while those who support abortion are considered to be on the higher moral plane having only one or two children is considered more moral than welcoming a larger family i ve actually been called selfish for daring to have nine children no i hate to say it but chastisement is not on its way it s been unfolding before us for some time and the unfortunate result is that god will not step in and save us until we ask him to do it and while it may be true that many among us are asking if the country as a whole continues to act in defiance of him by the way we act and the people we elect to serve as the example of what we stand for then god will continue to allow us to live under our own wisdom and do any of us see a sudden welcoming of god back into our lives on a collective basis we can pray and hope for a miracle but as of this point there is no such indication how bad will things need to get before we come to our collective senses unfortunately there is every likelihood that we are about to find out share this email a link to a friend opens in new window email print opens in new window print share on facebook opens in new window facebook share on x opens in new window x like loading filed under abortion catholicism chastisement christianity faith gay marriage god marriage morals opinion religion theological thought and tagged catholic catholic church catholicism chastisement christian christianity church faith gay marriage god homosexuality letter to the romans liberalism marriage paul progressivism punishment religion roman catholic church romans romans 1 scripture theology wrath of god 2 comments oct 3 relativism is not new posted on october 3 2016 by the diatribe guy standard someone i love dearly is a friend on facebook but i have to admit that i sometimes lose sleep and appetite over the way he lives his life the choices he s made the agenda he proclaims and what he posts in response to a post he made recently which suggests that unconditional love means accepting who he is without question which in his mind means celebrating his lifestyle his choices everything he believes and so on i responded accordingly unconditional love is some things and it is not other things by definition it means we are loved regardless of what we do say think and believe it means we are loved whether we love god back or we neglect god and focus only on ourselves what it does not mean is that love is only love if we accept as true what another says does and believes the response was frustrating but unsurprising i m going to dissect it piece by piece my innate disagreement with your definition of unconditional love is that it is conditional ok got that this is why argument is futile take something turn it upside down establish that as a premise and all arguments flow from there the issue is that the premise here is poppycock it completely renders all subsequent arguments absurd and yet this is his mindset how can unconditional love mean anything other than the fact that i or god or anyone will love you no matter what you may be right you may be wrong you may be wonderful you may be obnoxious but i love you anyway that stems from our idea of what the idea of god means god is not an idea god is real it is true that we develop our own ideas of what the reality of god is so i kinda sorta maybe get what he s saying here but i think he falls short of admitting the reality of an actual god and i think he has succumbed to the idea of god actually being equivalent to the idea of god in my eyes as the very experience of god which is love in action every single one of us are all true in what we say do and believe this sounds wonderful it s also nonsense it is pure relativism and it is amazing to me that anyone in his or her right mind can actually believe this the entire concept of all of us being all true in everything logically collapses on itself the moment i say i disagree with his statement if i disagree with him then it means i don t believe that we are all true in what we say do and believe which either means i m right about that or i m wrong but according to him i can t be wrong so i might be right but then that makes him wrong it s an unwinnable position of paradox that is utterly simple to dismantle using lessons learned on day one of logic class that is what makes unconditional love which really is a redundant term if you break it down because love cannot be conditional so important i m not exactly sure what everyone being all true has to do with love being unconditional but i will grant that real love is probably redundant with unconditional love i still think the term has explanatory merit it allows all things to exist as they are i really don t get this line all things exist as they are regardless of whether i love you or hate you but whatever it allows us to recognize the god essence of the perfection in what one another says does and believes understanding that on the level of truth in which that being exists it is perfect it is right and it is good so do you understand that yeah me neither he does like to get all flowery with the language and it is a facebook response so it probably was just a flowage of thought and words but i think i can boil it down simply to the following everyone has the essence of god which makes us perfect which makes us right in everything which of course is utter nonsense but how do you go about convincing someone that they epitomize the perfection of god that they are wrong this is one problem with relativism it defies all logic but once embraced there is no logical offense against it whether or not what another says does and believes rings true for another god essence makes no difference as to its rightness because god does not evaluate itself based on the polarities of right and wrong as love automatically transcends both polarities in the act of being expressed to a place where all beings choices are beautiful and perfect for them sigh it s actually amazing to me but in a sad way there is no acknowledgment here of an actual god everything is an idea of god a god essence the statement that god does not evaluate itself is actually true but he is not talking about the being of god judging himself he is talking about us all being god which means we can t judge each other because we are all god and we can t judge god i ll be honest this actually makes me a bit queasy when i really think about it by loving unconditionally we allow all perspectives to exist and evolve into their highest form mandates of right and wrong pervert this allowance by judging what is good and bad inducing guilt and fear which is not god which is not love judgment or condition only indicates a lack of god in the being who is judging not the one being judged and here we go there is no right or wrong to judge anything at all induces guilt and fear and what does that mean it means that if you judge any thing at all not a judgment of the soul or of a person s salvation but even anything they do or say anything at all then you are not god this is insane you may wonder how i responded i didn t first of all this person is family it s a peacekeeping response by me t...