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are labelled heresies 17 they conclude on the basis of their rejection of the revised mass rite and of postconciliar church teaching as false that the popes involved are also false 1 even amongst traditionalist catholics 2 18 this is a quite divisive question 1 2 traditionalist catholics who are not sedevacantists recognize the line of popes leading to and including pope leo xiv as legitimate 19 sedevacantists however claim that the infallible magisterium of the catholic church could not have decreed the changes made in the name of the second vatican council and conclude those who issued these changes could not have been acting with the authority of the catholic church 20 accordingly they hold that pope john xxiii and his successors have left the true catholic church and thus lost legitimate authority a notorious heretic they say cannot be the catholic pope 21 most sedevacantists believe that this great apostasy started with the second vatican council although there are disagreements about whether the last legitimate pope was john xxiii or pius xii with the latter position being held by those who believe the 1958 conclave results were illegitimate this particular belief is usually associated with the giuseppe siri conspiracy theory however there are other sedevacantist positions that describe the great apostasy as having started with benedict xv in 1914 meaning that pope pius xii and pope pius xi were also heretics and making the last legitimate pope saint pius x 22 while sedevacantist arguments often hinge on interpretations of modernism as being a heresy this is also debated clarification needed 23 authority to declare an antipope edit main articles papal infallibility ultramontanism power of the keys and cum ex apostolatus officio citing the jesuit theologian robert bellarmine some sedevacantists argue that a heretical pope automatically loses office and is no longer pope by the very fact of consenting to heresy an issue facing sedevacantists in attempting to justify their position was how to deal with the question of who from a catholic perspective has the legitimate authority to judge or declare a man who the world at large considered the legitimate pope paul vi to instead be a non catholic antipope and manifest public and notorious heretic 24 one of the sedevacantist currents is referred to as the jesuit faction and is represented by fr joaquín sáenz y arriaga and his base within the mexican sedevacantists and later american factions influenced by them such as the cmri this current looks especially to jesuit doctor of the church robert bellarmine and jesuit francisco suárez 24 the cmri cites bellarmine writing in his de romano pontifice the pope manifestly a heretic ceases by himself to be pope and head in the same way as he ceases to be a christian and a member of the body of the church and for this reason he can be judged and punished by the church this is the opinion of all the ancient fathers who teach that manifest heretics lose immediately all jurisdiction 25 that is to say by becoming a public and notorious heretic a reigning pontiff tacitly resigns office automatically by the very act of consenting to heresy itself without any formal procedure being required following the likes of charles rené billuart the dominican faction argued that a heretical pope must be juridically deposed by procedure of a general council this led them to develop the sedeprivationist thesis given that the sedevacantist movement during the time of paul vi consisted of a very small number of lower clergymen who had been ordained by the roman catholic church and laymen who had followed them being without a single bishop who publicly endorsed the sedevacantist position in public until ngô đình thục in the early 1980s the likelihood that such juridical proceedings by a general council would be initiated against paul vi was incredibly marginal after the death of paul vi in 1978 the opportunity to do this had passed and guérard des lauriers was forced by the logic of his own arguments to adopt the position of sedeprivationism in 1979 breaking with sedevacantism proper or totalism as it is sometimes called claiming instead that the vatican based post conciliar claimants to the papacy were indeed popes materially but not formally 26 circumstances for a future pope edit main articles papal appointment and conclave citing the opinion of francisco de vitoria professor tomás tello corraliza proposed that faithful bishops in a general council could theoretically elect a new pope 27 since the 1990s a small number of ex sedevacantists became conclavists and have had themselves elected claiming to be pope using different methods the most notable of these are david bawden victor von pentz and lucian pulvermacher but they gained negligible acceptance and credibility within sedevacantism 28 29 professor tomás tello corraliza a spanish sedevacantist authored a study in 1994 entitled the election of the pope exploring possibilities this study was subsequently published in the german journal einsicht no 1 february 2003 edited by dr eberhard heller where he explores the opinions of influential catholic theologians on this question including thomas cajetan robert bellarmine francisco de vitoria john of st thomas dom gréa louis billot and charles journet 27 another position favoured by tello is that of de vitoria founder of the school of salamanca who in his work de ecclesiastica potestate on the church power suggested in the absence of cardinals faithful catholic bishops in general council to the exclusion of the laity and lower clergy could elect a new pope 27 clergy mass and sacraments edit some sedevacantists accept the consecrations and ordinations of sedevacantist bishops and priests and the offering of masses and the administration of sacraments by the said bishops and priests to be licit because of epikea 30 31 32 i e the interpretation of the mind and will of him who made the law 33 una cum liturgical controversy edit according to sedevacantist priest anthony cekada there is a controversy among sedevacantists whether it is permissible to go to una cum masses and whether or not it amounts to a mortal sin these una cum masses are traditional latin masses that name the current pope in the te igitur prayer specifically where the priest says una cum famulo tuo papa nostro n together with your servant n our pope cekada argues that it is not under any circumstances permissible 34 the anti sedevacantist traditional catholics john salza and robert siscoe argue that the disagreements over una cum masses discredit sedecavantism as many sedecavantists have condemned each other as heretics over the controversy and that due to the issue many sedevacantists do not attend mass at all 35 believers and organisations edit because sedevacantists particularly the laity are not concentrated into one single organisation it is difficult to ascertain exact numbers of sedevacantists in the world however the number has been estimated at around 30 000 people worldwide 14 these are mostly concentrated in the united states mexico canada france italy spain australia and the united kingdom but the actual size of the movement has never been accurately assessed it remains extremely difficult to do so for a wide range of reasons such as the fact that not all sedevacantists identify as such nor do they necessarily belong to avowedly sedevacantist groups or societies 36 sedevacantist groups edit sedevacantist groups include congregation of mary immaculate queen cmri formed in 1967 it operates in north america south america europe and asia and is based in omaha nebraska united states its bishop is mark pivarunas most holy family monastery mhfm a traditionalist catholic monastery in fillmore new york founded in 1967 and led by michael and peter dimond society of saint pius v sspv formed in 1983 when nine american priests split from the society of saint pius x over a number of issues including using the liturgical books implemented under pope john xxiii it operated in north america from oyster bay cove new york united states and was headed by bishop clarence kelly until his death in december 2023 37 sspv is now based in norwood ohio united states 38 early proponents edit this section does not cite any sources please help improve this section by adding citations to reliable sources unsourced material may be challenged and removed july 2023 learn how and when to remove this message early proponents of sedevacantism include bishop francis schuckardt an american who was illicitly consecrated a bishop by the old catholic bishop daniel q brown he founded the congregation of mary immaculate queen cmri from which he was expelled in 1984 he later established a new sect the traditional latin rite catholic church tlrcc joaquín sáenz y arriaga a mexican jesuit priest and theologian who put forward sedevacantist ideas in his books the new montinian church august 1971 and sede vacante 1973 francis e fenton an american priest inspired by sáenz s writings and founded the orthodox roman catholic movement as an american parallel to the mexican unión católica trento michel louis guérard des lauriers a french dominican priest and theologian who developed the thesis of cassiciacum in the 1970s he was illicitly consecrated bishop in 1981 by ngô đình thục several american priests of the society of saint pius x sspx daniel dolan anthony cekada and donald sanborn who were expelled with several other priests by archbishop marcel lefebvre for their sedevacantism in 1983 nine of these priests later founded the society of saint pius v sspv in the same year dolan and sanborn were later illicitly consecrated bishops lucian pulvermacher an american missionary priest who left the catholic church in 1976 and in 1998 was elected pope of the conclavist true catholic church with the papal name pius xiii sedevacantist bishops edit papal primacy supremacy and infallibility overview primacy of peter papal primacy papal supremacy papal infallibility first vatican council papal infallibility patriarchs compared to popes papal primacy episcopal see catholic church apiarius of sicca appeal to the bishop of rome pentarchy after the east west schism pope john xix life gregory ii youssef first vatican council ravenna document eastern orthodox opposition to papal supremacy ecumenical councils compared to popes conciliarity conciliarism modern conciliarism ecumenical council acceptance of the councils to the christian nobility of the german nation the third wall authority to call a council ultrajectine church catholic episcopal councils compared to popes febronianism christus dominus controversy the ratzinger report political rulers compared to popes gallicanism patronato real josephinism febronianism cisalpinism appointment of catholic bishops centralization of papal power concordat list papal deposing power existing dogma compared to popes development of doctrine cum ex apostolatus officio pascendi dominici gregis objections and controversy ecclesiastical differences between the catholic church and the eastern orthodox church papal authority ignaz von döllinger papal authority ultramontanism position of other apostolic churches papal infallibility objections old catholic church first vatican council old catholic union of utrecht sedevacantism josip juraj strossmayer catholic diplomacy v t e consecrated before vatican ii edit the only known catholic bishop consecrated before the second vatican council who publicly became sedevacantist was vietnamese archbishop ngô đình thục consecrated in 1938 former vicar apostolic of vĩnh long vietnam and former archbishop of huế vietnam bishop alfredo méndez gonzalez consecrated in 1960 former bishop of arecibo puerto rico though not having publicly identified as a sedevacantist associated himself with sedevacantist priests and consecrated a bishop for them thục line bishops edit many sedevacantist bishops derive their claims to holy orders and episcopacy from archbishop thục or bishops of his lineage some bishops in the sedevacantist world derive their lineage from the palmarian catholic church also known as the carmelites of the holy face this is due to thục having consecrated as bishop clemente domínguez y gómez later the pope of the palmarian church and consequently the palmarians making many more consecrations an example of this from spain is the case of sedevacantist bishop pablo de rojas sánchez franco of the pía unión de san pablo apóstol who was consecrated a bishop by ricardo subirón ferrandis a former palmarian bishop turned sedevacantist 39 de rojas was at the centre of a significant controversy in 2024 as an entire monastery of nuns belonging to the poor clares from belorado went into schism with the vatican and attempted to place themselves under his jurisdiction losing their monastery in the ensuing court battle 39 40 41 on 7 may 1981 thục consecrated the sedeprivationist french priest michel louis guérard des lauriers as a bishop 42 des lauriers was a french dominican theologian and a papal advisor 43 on 17 october 1981 thục consecrated the sedevacantist mexican priests moisés carmona and adolfo zamora as bishops 42 carmona and zamora had been sedevacantist leaders and propagators in mexico 44 the vatican declared thục latae sententiae excommunicated for these consecrations and for his declaration of sedevacantism 42 méndez line bishops edit on 19 october 1993 in carlsbad california united states bishop méndez gonzalez consecrated the sedevacantist clarence kelly of the society of saint pius v sspv to the episcopacy by méndez s wish the consecration was kept secret until his death in 1995 45 whose lineages derive from earlier movements edit a considerable number of sedevacantist bishops are thought to derive their holy orders from bishop carlos duarte costa who in 1945 set up his own independent brazilian catholic apostolic church 46 page needed while duarte costa was not a sedevacantist he instead questioned the papacy as an institution denying papal infallibility and rejecting the pope s universal jurisdiction 47 in contrast to most catholic traditionalists duarte costa was theologically liberal and his critiques of the papacy came from that direction 48 related concepts edit sedeprivationism edit main article sedeprivationism in contrast to sedevacantists sedeprivationists affirm the thesis of cassiciacum by the dominican theologian bishop michel louis guérard des lauriers as being a valid position which states that john xxiii and his successors are popes materialiter sed non formaliter materially but not formally and that post vatican ii popes will become legitimate once they recant their heresies sedeprivationism is the position endorsed by the istituto mater boni consilii 49 benevacantism edit main article benevacantism a separate minority position called benevacantism a portmanteau of benedict and sedevacantism holds that pope benedict xvi continued as pope followin...