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Text of the page (random words):
en and looting this is a highly pov sentence here as this seems to be taken straight from philip snow s book and the number implies that it is taken straight from a chinese propaganda for those of you unfamiliar with chinese language the number 10 000 is a standard way of saying many when a large number is warranted great wall of china when literally translated is 10 000 li unit of distance long fortification but it simply means as stated in that article that it s infinite this sentence therefore is a blantant copy of propaganda that claims japanese were really or infinitely horrible and not to be taken literally wikipedia is not a place for a propaganda or let alone a spreading of unverifiable claims revth 01 52 8 december 2005 utc reply thousand in english serves the same purpose as 10 000 in chinese therefore all mentions of thousand must automatically be unreliable the thousands of people killed by the atomic bombs are really just japanese propaganda therefore the whole article on the hiroshima and nagasaki bombings are just blatant copies of japanese propaganda that claims americans chinese gaijin non japanese are really or infinitely horrible in a math test 1000 1 infinity how you choose to intepret 10 000 is your own problem not anyone else s if you think that quoting a statistic is propaganda feel free to live in your own world phillip snow is a respected historian in his field and if you wish to dispute his statistics feel free but just saying it is is not enough миборовский u t c e chugoku banzai 02 16 8 december 2005 utc reply re pov on the number 10 000 in his memoirs hong kong surgeon e o dutton co inc new york 1964 dr li shu fan a surgeon in hong kong during the battle of hong kong stated that the actual number of women raped will always remain a question but it was large 10 000 would be an underestimation and the methods was appallingly brutal 111 here we see that the 10 000 figure is used not as an exact number but as a conservative estimate i do not think he was using it as revth suggests the memoirs were written in english so this is not a english translation of the chinese term infinity the figure of 10 000 seems to have been estimated by dr li through two main personal observations with the understanding that only a small percentage of those who were raped appeared at hospitals to be treated for rape injuries 111 which is consistent with what history has shown us with the issue of rape dr li first observed a deluge of rape victims that he personally treated at his hospital immediately after the fall of hong kong 111 this can be verified with other witnesses at the time he also notes that these women ranged from the ages of early teens to the sixties 111 the second observation dr li had was around nine months later in october when he noticed an unusual spike in babies being born he dubbed this the baby crop of 1942 121 suggesting that since the usual time for deliveries was several months later that the fact that this baby crop was almost 9 months after the fall of hong kong was further evidence of the result of mass rape that occurred in late december early january 1941 121 furthermore according to dr li after this baby crop births dropped drastically so much so that it was in inverse proportion to the baby crop 121 while one could dismiss dr li s memoirs as chinese propaganda dr li s was a well respected surgeon amongst chinese english and apparently japanese alike so i am not sure if there could be a better primary source to substantiate the claim of mass rape in hong kong as we have seen in the cases of the past poland bosnia and rwanda to name a few rape cases are very difficult to analyze especially in war however given the evidence of dr li and may other witnesses it would be fool hardy to dismiss the number of 10 000 rape cases as propaganda true it may not have been the exact figure but it would seem from the evidence that a significant amount of women were raped perhaps many more times than 10 000 jamesl85 08 33 26 october 2006 utc reply and this is why the source is so unreliable and very doubly and i truly believe is exaggerated propaganda this estimate comes from only one chinese surgeon the estimation come from only one chinese physician the point is there isn t nobody else who could confirm this source apart from one chinese physician which is why i doubt this source if there are other non chinese surgeons who could prove this estimate than i ll believe but since it s all based from one chinese surgeon it could have been easily manipulated it doesn t matter if he was an respected surgeon or not the point is it was very possible he exaggerated the numbers since anti japanese feeling was so strong by chinese during this time many chinese propagandist did indeed exaggerated the crimes japanese did indeed japanese committed lot s of crimes but chinese also exaggerated an portion so i ll say it s much more less than 10 000 maybe 5000 at best you rarely hears hong kong chinese who ever talked about japanese crimes warriorspride6565 talk 4 08 5 november 2011 utc after checking philip snow s book i can confirm that snow s source of the figure of approx 10 000 rape cases is indeed dr li s memoirs jamesl85 08 12 1 november 2006 utc reply the guerilla resistance section is also highly pov it is indeed very sad that chinese guerilla fighters have been forgotten but saying so is pov cuivienen 14 25 8 december 2005 utc reply i m sure there are ways of inserting factual information about them into the article feel free миборовский u t c e chugoku banzai 23 22 8 december 2005 utc reply the diagram is great but i don t believe 60 000 troops invaded about 5 japanese divisions i can find reference to 9000 troops nickhk is this statement correct edit latest comment 9 years ago 5 comments 5 people in discussion although hong kong surrendered to the japanese local chinese waged a small guerilla war in new territories however because of the resistance some villages were razed as a punishment the guerillas fought until the end of the japanese occupation western historical books on the subject have not significantly covered their actions the resistance groups were known as the gangjiu and dongjiang forces dongjiang guerillas fighting in trenches and then there is a picture of guerilla fighting in trenches labeled dongjiang i doubt very much they had enough ammo and manpower to fight in trenches the japanese troops during the whole war especially the ability to stop armored vehicles and air bombing seems a bit limited it would be really worth mentioning if they withstood japanese forces in symmetrical warfare all the time could it be possible that they fought more in an urban guerilla way hidding weapons ambushing no uniforms or hidden combat signs etc more like other partisan units in their times perhaps their way of fighting should be made clear wandalstouring 12 08 1 july 2006 utc reply they definitely were not fighting in ww1 trench warfare style i m not familiar with the hk resistance efforts but i would assume these are hastily constructed but possibly quite well hidden though it s not apparent from the photo if this one is ditches which serve no more purpose than providing temporary cover to guerilla fighters before they move on and disappear миборо в ский 21 49 30 august 2006 utc reply local chinese if they were born in hong kong they weren t chinese they were british subjects the same as the soldiers sailors and airmen who had been attempting to defend them preceding unsigned comment added by 95 145 115 106 talk 11 17 11 january 2017 utc reply being a british subject isn t the same as being of british nationality as the fate of the locals when hong kong went back to chinese sovereignty demonstrates keith 264 talk 11 43 11 january 2017 utc reply being a british subject isn t the same as being of british nationality well it was then it was exactly the same preceding unsigned comment added by 95 150 18 209 talk 09 33 20 september 2017 utc reply canadian involvement edit there used to be much more about the canadians someone cut this out why preceding unsigned comment added by 65 93 213 218 talk contribs i moved most of it c force but forgot to link it from here which i have now done my bad sorry grant talk whoever keeps editing out the canadian contribution your just going to cause someone to write a c force history in great detail so you should put back what you took away this contribution used to be much better before someone edited out the canadian contirbution and also my earlier comment asking why this was edited out preceding unsigned comment added by 65 93 150 106 talk contribs as a result many of canadian soldiers have never fired a rifle before arriving in hong kong surely it should be many canadian soldiers had never fired a shot in anger before arriving in hong kong which raf station edit latest comment 11 months ago 2 comments 2 people in discussion in the sentence the japanese achieved air superiority on the first day of battle as two of the three vickers vildebeest torpedo reconnaissance aircraft and the two supermarine walrus amphibious planes of the raf station which were the only military planes at hong kong s kai tak airport were destroyed by 12 japanese bombers i imagine that the raf station in question is raf kai tak is this correct greenshed talk 01 29 8 december 2007 utc reply yes i think so but there were other airports in hk during the time so idk 2025 31395 87 talk 07 51 5 november 2025 utc reply japanese air units edit latest comment 18 years ago 1 comment 1 person in discussion were the bombers from the imperial japanese army air service or the imperial japanese navy air service or both greenshed talk 01 33 8 december 2007 utc reply the japanese surrendered less than a week after the bombings of hiroshima and nagasaki edit latest comment 18 years ago 1 comment 1 person in discussion the bombings did not occur on the same day this sentence doesn t make sense british sovereignty was restored in 1945 following the surrender of the japanese forces on 15 august less than a week after the united states had dropped atomic bombs in hiroshima and nagasaki it was nine days after the hiroshima bombing and six after nagasaki given that it was a full six days after nagasaki one day short of a week the phrasing seems strange preceding unsigned comment added by 71 63 86 153 talk 15 31 8 december 2007 utc reply wikipedia wikiproject military history assessment tag assess 2008 edit latest comment 18 years ago 1 comment 1 person in discussion ensured that the article is within project scope tagged for task forces and assessed for class rosiestep talk 17 27 26 april 2008 utc reply ce edit latest comment 10 years ago 1 comment 1 person in discussion tidied and moved oob closer to footer keith 264 talk 10 31 20 february 2016 utc reply external links modified edit latest comment 9 years ago 1 comment 1 person in discussion hello fellow wikipedians i have just 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