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Text of the page (random words):
y on 22 april 2006 editor a began recategorising several articles from category forza italia politicians to category members of forza italia without discussion example silvio berlusconi 16 07 22 april 2006 for context this was in the aftermath of the april 2006 italian general election in which incumbent prime minister silvio berlusconi had been defeated but hadn t conceded defeat yet there were significant tensions in italy in those days and the article silvio berlusconi was tagged as npov at the time editor b came along readding silvio berlusconi to category forza italia politicians saying not too sure why both categories should exist but as long as they do i suppose he belongs in both editor a removed category forza italia politicians again without discussion commencing an edit war between a and b a didn t say anything at all in their edit summaries while b tried to tell a to explain their removals on the talk page or nominate the entire category for deletion if you don t like the cat at all and to tell them categories should not be emptied without deletion discussion b posted on a s talk page several times most discussion ended up happening at b s talk page a argued that the new cat is consistent with other names about italian parties b you re still not supposed to empty a cat on your own initiative you should list it on categories for deletion a ok thanks the sole thing is you are supposed to is not such a nice expression to use at least with me here b well i thought maybe you weren t familiar with the accepted procedures see wikipedia categories for deletion for details a admitted i did a mistake ok but still found it unhelpful to have two duplicate categories simply because you re sticking on paper procedures instead of consistence and asked b what to do next b explained categories should not be emptied out of process like a did because maybe someone will object to the change not me i don t really care but someone could you should undo the mistake by listing the category on wikipedia categories for deletion separately editor b had asked on the cfd talk page where is the instruction that says you re not supposed to empty a category rather than or prior to or at the same time as listing it for deletion i know i ve seen it and now i can t find it editor a is currently in violation with regard to category forza italia politicians admin 1 responded 3 days later 27 april it s the second bullet under step 5 in part ii of the instructions at wp cfd as reconstructed at cfd howto policy september 2004 july 2006 admin 1 referred to the sentence bold in original unless the category to be deleted is non controversial vandalism or a duplicate for example please do not depopulate the category remove the tags from articles before the community has made a decision admin 1 didn t tag b so b was not notified of this answer might ve missed it admin 1 also never seems to have investigated whether a had committed the violation of not emptying categories that one seeks to delete instead of nominating listing it for deletion neither editor a nor editor b nor admin 1 undertook any action thereafter editor c who originally created the category on 4 april 2006 emptied it on 7 may 2006 which was allowed because duplicate categories were considered non controversial and nominated it for speedy deletion per a predecessor criterion of wp c2e namely author requests deletion editor c the only contributor indicated they mistakenly created category forza italia politicians as a duplicate of category members of forza italia note if anyone other that editor c at the time would have emptied the category and nominated it for speedy deletion that would not have been allowed on 7 may 2006 wikipedia criteria for speedy deletion stated about categories empty categories no articles or subcategories for at least four days whose only content has consisted of links to parent categories this does not apply to categories being discussed on wp cfd if the category isn t relatively new it possibly contained articles earlier and deeper investigation is needed category forza italia politicians was deleted on 7 may 2006 with the rationale duplicated by category members of forza italia perhaps somewhat ironically category members of forza italia was moved back to category forza italia politicians on 12 august 2010 takeaway editor a had good intentions to make names of political party member categories consistent but was unaware that categories should not be emptied out of process in this case through recategorisation editor b did know but not where they read that rule about emptying cats had to ask at cfd talk where to find this rule b only got a correct answer three days later from admin 1 who didn t tag editor b after edit warring with b editor a admitted their mistake but was annoyed by the fact that they did not know that this rule existed let alone where to find it admin 1 correctly told b where to find the rule on not emptying categories out of process but failed to properly notify b and failed to check whether a had committed a policy violation b never told a about admin 1 s answer if they even read it b only told a to repopulate the category and then take it to wp cfd if a wanted to have it deleted the correct course of action would have been for a or b or admin 1 to take it to cfd but none of them undertook any action thereafter over 2 weeks later editor c emptied their own category for a legitimate reason and had it deleted for a legitimate reason the whole saga shows both editor a and editor b had to a greater or lesser degree a lack of awareness of what the relevant policies and guidelines were where to find them and how to apply them in practice both asked questions on what the rules were a to b b to admin 1 but didn t follow that up with an action when they were given an answer to their question it would have helped if admin 1 had tagged b and admin 1 should have checked for violations of policy therefore awareness of the actual policy was not raised it was not implemented and potential violation of it was neither investigated nor addressed therefore the problem persisted until someone else found a different method of solving the problem according to existing procedures it also left a and b a bit annoyed with each other without a clear way forward in future scenarios although there appear to have been no subsequent disagreements ani 914 emptying categories out of process edit february 2016 wikipedia administrators noticeboard incidentarchive914 emptying categories out of process editor a repeatedly empties a set of categories and tags them for speedy deletion edit warring with patroller b who reverts the emptying patroller b takes the matter to ani admin 1 i wondered why i ve seen this set of categories on the empty categories list more than once i ve posted a message on editor a s talk page asking that he explain why he emptied the category out of process unfortunately although this is an improper way to get a category deleted rather than nominating it at wp cfd it s more common than it should be doing it once is taking an unacceptable short cut but doing it several times means it is behavior that needs to be explained and addressed editor a my apologies i was not aware that categories that are so redundant should remain unchanged but as has been said i should pursue that through cfd although i ll probably just drop the entire issue thanks for bringing this to my attention patroller c editor a the discussion here is not about whether these categories should exist or not which is basically a content or organisation of content dispute the discussion is about the way you approached this you should not have emptied these categories repeatedly perhaps not even once but that would fall under wp brd probably but should have sent them to wp cfd instead that s why we have that process and you shouldn t try to avoid or override it by exhausting the other side of the discussion by reverting and templating them if there is a genuine dispute like here take it to a wider audience like cfd editor a patroller c thanks for your comment as i noted above i fully realize that the discussion is not about whether the categories should exist and i fully acknowledged that i should have first gone to cfd which i will do in the future now that i realize that is the way it should be done takeaway editor a appears to have been sincerely unaware that ecooping before nominating a category for deletion should not be done and even edit warred over it with a patroller but when explained it was about the procedure not the contents he apologised and promised not to do it anymore in the future but take the matter to cfd admin 1 indicated that ecooping is an improper way to get a category deleted and repeatedly ecooping is unacceptable to be explained and addressed ani 958 emptying categories out of process edit july 2017 emptying categories out of process editor a this user is a regular at wp cfd and is not ignorant of correct procedure for deleting categories editor b should be warned and if if sic still continues to make this type of edit should received a block if he fails to use the correct procedure in future editor b makes a content matter argument editor c editor b please nominate these for upmerging as normal the year vs decade vs century thing has been controversial forever as pedants decide we must have categories for every year on every topic editor b alright i ll do takeaway the editor acknowledged the mistake and to follow procedure in the future emptying categories deemed nonsensical edit october 2017 roman walls limes an editor asked another editor in 2017 hi you seem to be systematically emptying categories of the articles you seem to have a preference for category roman defensive walls in britain why is this what s your problem with categorising walls limes by roman province they replied roman walls is a nonsensical category there are many thousands of roman walls most of which do not warrant a description nor certainly a category defensive wall is clear obvious and better the conversation ended there no measures were taken nevertheless a 2021 cfr m renamed category roman defensive walls in britain to category walls in roman britain with unanimous approval as a follow up to a previously reached consensus takeaway do not empty a category you dislike by transferring items to a category you like better what may be a nonsensical category or a clear obvious and better category to you does not necessarily reflect the consensus the community consensus may decide it is in fact in the words of one user a sensible and appropriate way of naming categorising items emptying categories deemed anachronistic edit july 2018 emptying categories out of process on 15 july 2018 an admin told a user please use the cfd process i noticed that you have emptied category 1892 establishments in austria and presumably others today without discussion as you are an experienced editor you are fully aware that emptying categories out of process is not a light matter and could result in sanctions being taken against you you made a few nominations of multiple categories earlier this year the last of which including the category linked above which you have just emptied failed to achieve consensus and this lack of consensus was explicitly because you had chosen not to comply with previous advice to make a comprehensive nomination for what remained please desist from emptying categories without discussion as for the ones that you have emptied either repopulate them for discussion or at least have the diligence to redirect them like the ones that were merged following consensus at earlier cfds takeaway categories should not be emptied without discussion certainly not by experienced editors who are aware that emptying categories out of process could result in sanctions being taken against them editors who have inappropriately emptied categories are expected to repopulate them themselves the editor in question did not respond to the admin s message it is unclear whether the editor repopulated the categories they emptied no sanctions appear to have been imposed the category mentioned was deleted per wp c1 so apparently not out of process other related categories such as category 1891 establishments in austria were also deleted but later re created epilogue these year dis establishments in austria categories have gone back and forth over the years e g in april 2021 the same user recategorising arlberg railway tunnel from category 1884 establishments in austria to category establishments in the empire of austria 1867 1918 then nominating category 1884 establishments in austria for deletion saying austria did not exist as a state until the fall of the austro hungarian empire which resulted in no consensus and an uninvolved editor changing category establishments in the empire of austria 1867 1918 back to category 1884 establishments in austria saying it was a more precise category technically this was emptying out of process but given the no consensus result it was unclear whether these categories were anachronistic and or duplicative and had to be deleted anyway as of july 2023 arlberg railway tunnel is still the only item in category 1884 establishments in austria a recent cfd did reach consensus to delete merge all pre 1803 year something in austria categories per implicit wp smallcat users agreed categories had to have more than 1 or 2 articles or 5 articles and indirectly because they were deemed anarchonistic modern austria didn t exist yet categories without main article edit january 2021 emptying out category films by director an admin asked a wikiproject some editor is depopulating director categories on wikipedia starting with the a s first name yesterday 5 10 director categories are being emptied out a day you can see the daily list on wikipedia database reports empty categories at wp cfd this is called emptying out of process because the correct way to delete categories en masse like this is to post a proposal at cfd and argue for deletion and it s difficult for editors like me who are unfamiliar with film to know what films are being removed from these categories or to know whether this editing is following a decision made by this members of this wikiproject to eliminate these categories for lesser known directors categories deleted simply for being emptied can be restored whenever they are needed what we try to avoid though is for individual editors to set about doing mass changes that then have to be undone later this turned out to be a misunderstanding as the editor indicated in the german wp a category that has no corresponding main article is routinely tagged and quick deleted especially if it has been around for a while without the article been created but on english wikipedia it is not a quick delete criteria so i stopped tagging categories that way but removed the films in preparation f...