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s monopoly was actually a commercialized rip off of an earlier board game which ironically was designed to teach the dangers of concentrating land in private monopolies http en wikipedia org wiki monopoly_ game icem4n said at 12 36 pm on jun 30 2009 hello i m from brazil too br david lawson said at 12 52 pm on jun 30 2009 it s impossible to quantify creativity it s not a substance that can be weighed and measured each person s opinion of the originality of a given game or any other work of media can only be their own subjective opinion that said it often feels to me as if many new games are just prettier re hashes of well explored designs the possible reasons for this are many varied and complex for one people see successful implementations of ideas and would like to capitalize on that success modern business practices actively promote duplicating the successful practices of competitors and modern engineering tends to produce documented best practices to repeat successes and avoid mistakes the difficulty with this is that the game development is not just business and engineering it s also a creative process creative endeavors are not well served by the same practices that drive success in business and engineering hollywood for instance goes through lengthy periods of turning out derivative pablum of re hashed stories with prettier effects like the film industry the game industry needs to recognize that it s a hydrid of business engineering and creativity and to promote practices that enhance each sub discipline individually david lawson said at 12 53 pm on jun 30 2009 it could be argued that truly original ideas are very few and very far between as a professional game developer with an engineering emphasis an academic background in psychology and some studies in cognitive science i consider myself a derivative thinker give me two ideas and i ll hand you back fifteen ways to put them together hand me a blank piece of paper and pencil and i ll just ask what the hell you want william mizner said copy from one it s plagiarism copy from two it s research my corollary to that is copy from many sources it s original again more completely stated combine enough previously used ideas in new and interesting ways and the composite you ve created might as well be original i posit that thinkers like me vastly outnumber high creative types who emit a constant spew of apparently original ideas the thing with derivative thinking is that it requires an understanding of it to do well you must recognize that you are walking well travelled paths and seek new connections and intersections that maybe no one has taken before joshua said at 1 17 pm on jun 30 2009 one of the things that is interesting about creative things in general is that if it is too creative that is too different from what is being done it is often rejected by the majority and thus a flop we have all heard of and can probably give examples of things and individuals ahead of their time i think this is also some of the reason games that are produced aren t as creative as they might be being too creative can lead to it not being accepted my the masses there are some gems that do get produced that may have fallen by the wayside simply because they were ahead of their time i think looking at the clones and flops also has value in that something that wasn t accepted before may be now and you can also learn what doesn t work so as not to repeat it is that creative or just reusing or not using some old ideas my thought is that creativity is in the eye of the beholder i have seen someone do something which i thought was very creative only to find out that it is the standard operating procedure kalysren said at 1 22 pm on jun 30 2009 in reality only 7 of original ip s succeed in the marketplace even critically acclaimed games such as mirror s edge and okami don t always make it when it comes to people putting down their hard earned money to play them in the reading for this week greg costikyan talks about earthsim and what a failure it was but if you read his description of it it sounds remarkably like the teaser will wright did for spore it is the same for guitar hero while harmonix had a commercial success with this game it s predecessors amplitude and frequency are more cult classics than real commercial successes original ip s are hard to get published as games become more labor intensive and costly to build companies rely more and more on franchise possibilities and marketability original isn t as easy to guage liam o brien said at 1 47 pm on jun 30 2009 joshua my hope is that the increase in independent markets for video games will lower the trepidation of large scale developers and engender more interesting new mechanics dynamics however it will probably mean that developers won t take a chance on a new game until it and its sequel are a big hit on the indie market david lawson taking an existing set of mechanics dynamics and simply slapping a new set of art and graphics on them may be creative enough for some people and that s not really a bad thing the monopoly example cited by josh is perfect but there are so many others in all fields look at bild lilli and barbie or the movies high noon and outland sometimes a new face is more appropriate to the mechanics and dynamics of the game as a set and costume designer i try desperately to come up with original designs and sometimes i succeed however when the director can only say no that s not quite right without offering any new directions at that point i make a big collage of all the possible ways the design can go and i get the director to point and say what they like and what they don t like usually i can get enough info out of the collage pointing to proceed to a design a design which is a melange of existing ideas and not necessarily original in any way but it gets the job done whymme said at 1 56 pm on jun 30 2009 i don t think that there is a lack of creativity i must say though that my angle is non computer games so board games card games and role playing games places like rpgnet and boardgamegeek have designers forums where people can gather and discuss ideas there are lots of original ideas to be found there but as the saying goes creating something is 10 inspiration and 90 transpiration to get from fresh idea to completed product takes a lot of time effort and money in the computer game industry even more than in other parts of the games industry and as was said in a previous post investing that time effort and money in a proven concept is much safer than investing in a new and unproven idea especially if the roi on the untested idea will not be better than that on the proven idea oddible said at 1 58 pm on jun 30 2009 btw thanks timeshex for instigating this discussion in summary there are three main sources of inertia in creating truly original game concepts esp in video games 1 the game buying public adopts what it knows it likes 2 the game distributors cater to what they know works and don t support concepts that are too far afield and 3 the game production community builds upon existing source to meet deadlines and to not reinvent the wheel with every project reframing the issue then is the question of whether there has always been breakthrough originality which never sees the light of day is it a lack of creativity or a lack of producing the truly creative ideas how can one sell a truly creative idea to a distributor producer or the public which has the above inertia if original ideas are a goal then how can you prepare the public for original ideas in general or the original game you are trying to promote sell a game company tycoon game where the only way to win is to feed unique r d shouldn t we take this discussion to the forums kogorman aii edu said at 2 01 pm on jun 30 2009 timeshex i feel your pain but what you are looking for is out there you should invest some time playing the demos of the independent game festival entries http www igf com 02finalists html or the products of game jams http www igf com 02finalists html shameless plug and attempt at favoritism there you will see creativity gone wild the good news is each year more and more of the igf games are attracting publishing contracts dyson crayon physics world of goo and audiosurf all came out of the igf and don t skip over the student entries tag the power of paint and the unfinished swan are quite innovative twists of commercially successful platforms larry liang said at 2 04 pm on jun 30 2009 we should take this to the forums but at least in my case there s no access yet i m firmly in the if you want creativity in games look to the indie category but even there be prepared to find very little in the way of originality people need to make money to survive so they ll go with what works i doubt any developer looking to make money off of a game will put all of their effort into developing a completely original concept it s a vicious cycle but then usually anything involving money is jay s said at 2 18 pm on jun 30 2009 most things have been said in terms of mainstream v indie games but one thing that people should keep in mind is the importance of the distribution channel with services available like steam xbox live and the playstation network the number of more innovative games should be increasing since the overhead cost boils down simply to development penny arcade has been doing a good job of promoting the greenhouse publisher which handles lower budget direct download titles which are quirky unique and fun for the most part don t discount the ubiquity of flash games either as those have grown progressively more sophisticated over time and many of them are also unique bonifacio said at 2 27 pm on jun 30 2009 opa mais um brasileiro dan rosenthal said at 2 52 pm on jun 30 2009 article on legal issues is up still in progress but about 75 done http gamedesignconcepts pbworks com legal issues for game developers david lawson said at 4 15 pm on jun 30 2009 as the barriers to publication approach nil the body of available work will increase in size along with the sheer quantity of works available the number of higher quality works will likewise increase no matter the particular measure of qulaity the flipside of this is that the number of lower quality works will also increase no matter the particular measure of quality sturgeon s law always applies depending on the particular measure of quality the number of higher and lower quality works may or may not increase in proportion to the total number of works available the end result is that is may become easier or harder to find good games in what could become an extremely bloated marketspace these even exists the possibility that the sheer quantity of shovelware will drive a backlash against indie developers as people turn to the established and experienced publishers for highly polished experiences just thinking out loud luke mccampbell said at 6 38 pm on jun 30 2009 how about we add a participants page for those people that want to network as suggested in chapter 1 of the reading those people that want to put up information about themselves can and those that don t want to can just stay quiet seamusp said at 6 41 pm on jun 30 2009 david lawson hollywood for instance goes through lengthy periods of turning out derivative pablum of re hashed stories with prettier effects this was the topic of discussion in one of my classes in college a while ago one point that was made was that hollywood often seems to be working off an idiots guide version of joseph campbell s monomyth by an idiots guide meaning that they have tried to distil down the information into a simple check list of how to produce a compelling story script missing the point in the process there are perhaps others present that have a stronger background in this area and can make this point more eloquently than i can but i wanted try to contribute there are a few other points made by you guys that really have started me thinking thanks and i will hopefully add a bit more when we get access to the forums it s only the second day of the class course and already you guys have me looking at things in new ways thanks bruce said at 7 20 pm on jun 30 2009 with the spread of smaller devices like iphones and the relative ease for indie designers to get stuff out i think that not only will we see more and more players but more ideas tried out it is a bit of a gold rush right now everyone wants to do an iphone app but hopefully the cream should rise to the top and because these games are so cheap people are willing to grab a bunch and see what they are like in some ways i think stripping things back to basics really pushes what people can do in game design i am thinking in particular of the resurgance of micro games when the web came out then again when mobiles came out core game play wins seth burnette said at 12 06 pm on jul 1 2009 this news item i just saw seems relevant to the discussion it s called game creator kodu and it s for the 360 it looks like it would be cool for very basic prototyping i ll have to try out the demo and see http www shacknews com laryn x story 59364 kalysren said at 9 31 pm on jul 1 2009 yeah i was going to check that out about sharendipity as well http www sharendipity com mike reddy said at 8 39 am on jul 2 2009 am working with kodu now on xbox 360 am going to try out on the kids tonight if i get the chance mauricio b g said at 5 34 pm on jul 6 2009 hello i m from brazil too rs unisinos david hampton said at 2 06 am on jul 9 2009 is there a help page for this pbworks thing were all using ircscorpion said at 7 55 pm on apr 15 2010 http www kelebekfm net http www ikisohbet net http www ticket724 com http www emircindir com http www bilisimkenti com http www adilsohbet com http www sohbetturk net http www ikipornoizle net http www sikisturkey com mortgage said at 6 42 am on may 27 2010 hi thanks for the article on this pbworks 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