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t always provide but hopefully that means online spaces without ai develop ai life advice 5 hours ago with 45 708 notes seananmcguire fuckyeahchinesefashion the baby swans at the old summer palace fell asleep on their parents backs cr 展扇轻摇 source fuckyeahchinesefashion safest little bean bags swans birds good things 8 hours ago with 32 336 notes anonymous asked i joke a lot that my dog had a return policy in the contract with the breeder ie we could return her for a refund or replacement if she experienced some of a list of issues that a responsible breeder would health test for like hip elbow dysplasia or early cancer but to be honest i don t think i d trust a breeder who didn t have something like that in the contract for a dog since quail live for such a short period of time is it viable to health test and guarantee in an equivalent way or do issues tend to be discussed post mortem the short answer is no testing is not done no guarantees are rarely offered and no issues are not generally discussed post mortem the longer answer buckle up is that we re not just talking about two kinds of animals we re talking abut two completely different types of animal classes with completely different sets of expectations and purposes dogs are pets quail are small livestock raised for food they are also comparatively slow producing animals vs fast producing animals these two factors in combination are really important to understanding how each are dealt with most animals that are pet type animals are not hard culled if they get sick injured or have genetic health issues if a dog gets sick it goes to the vet if a dog gets injured if it s not something minor they can shrug off in a couple days they go to a vet because it s taboo to hard cull puppies and because they only in the care of a responsible breeder only produce a handful of pups a year tests have been developed to look for deleterious genes so they can avoid breeding dogs together that have those things and vaccines are pretty standard to avoid dogs getting common illnesses meds can be given liberally to treat things like parasites or illnesses that do pop up basically everything possible is done to avoid hard culling a companion animal instead animals that cannot or should not become breeding animals get pet homed and cared for as pets and responsible breeders will take back stock they ve bred rather than allow it to go to a shelter or be euthanized livestock are not the same and small animal food livestock are on the other side of the planet with food stock livestock a responsible breeder s job is to cull against defects if a quail here is hatched and something seems wrong with it in any way that quail is hard culled and either frozen for reptile feed given to bug mantis if it s small enough for them to eat or given to my local crows in tribute nothing leaves here or is bred here that isn t to the naked eye perfect depending on what is wrong there s a good chance i will also cull the parent stock that s part of why i track lineages there is also very little health testing available to birds there s pullorum testing which while a good precaution only really tests for 1 disease pullorum thyphoid that has all but been eradicated through the npip system which i test for and then there s tests which cost between 8 and 30 per bird to test stuff like low pathogenic ai and mycoplasma there are very few easily accessible vaccines for fowl you can get the marek s vaccine but it s leaky and means your flock is now closed to anyone that isn t marek s vaccinated which is not many people because most people know better some people live in places where stuff like the newcastle vaccine is prudent but that s not local to me mycoplasma technically has a vaccine but it s not one you can give at home so it d be a 70 vet bill just to walk in the door and that s if you can find an avian vet that will see livestock birds my town is 4k population and we have at least 3 cat dog vets in town that i can name off the top of my head the nearest avian vet that sees fowl is an hour away to put it very bluntly it s literally just not worth it for a bird that costs anywhere from 2 15 could i or anyone do all that testing and vaccinating and such yeah sure but a no one cares on the buying end and b no one is going to pay for it on the buying end no one is going to pay 300 for a bird that s health tested and vaccinated they would look at me like i d grown a second head if i asked them to a lady who has therapy quail she raised herself had a quail break a leg and wanted to get it amputated and came to ask if anyone else had ever done that and she was raked over the coals repeatedly for not just culling the animal on the spot partly because spending that kind of money on quail is incredibly rare but also legitimately because quail are ground birds that don t do well with less than 2 feet and shouldn t be subjected to that it s part of why livestock are not advisable to keep as pets until you get to the very large livestock such as horses which are big pets classed as livestock so they can zone stuff and have different rules about them not because most people are eating horse on top of the cost most medical interventions just straight up cannot be given to food producing animals because they aren t approved for human ingestion and the meds used to treat animals usually aren t the same as the ones treating humans they come with what is called lifetime withdrawal a withdrawal period is a period of time after giving a medication or other substance that science has researched and found the medication is present in the meat or eggs and so the animal cannot be processed for meat or have their eggs eaten during that time you literally just throw the eggs away they cannot be given back to the birds without reintroducing the med some meds like amprolium don t have a withdrawal period some meds like toltrazuril technically have been researched to have a withdrawal period but it s either too long or not approved yet 90 days for toltrazuril some have never been tested for withdrawal period and aren t legal to give to your birds there s like less than ten meds you can give to food birds that are technically actually approved for birds specifically it s why there s such a prevalence of pseudoscience meds where people think giving acv or oregano to their birds is medicine most things you might use to treat an issue render that bird useless for its intended purpose and you d be better off culling and eating or culling and disposing of them now this isn t true for all livestock see above re horses but also cattle and sometimes goats these animals can fetch into the thousands of dollars per animal and produce 1 5 babies 1 2 generally for horses cows per year it makes sense to health test them both because those costs can be rolled into the sale fee and because when you only get 1 2 shots at producing a good quality animal a year and it s really expensive to fail having testing to help you do it well is sensible for a quail a single bird may produce 200 300 babies in a year anything that isn t up to snuff can just be eaten by you by other animals you re going to get plenty of chances to get good birds and rather than a stigma against culling unhealthy individuals it s considered responsible breeding to hard cull animals that have anything remotely wrong with them a freezer full of quail meat is what we have instead of testing once the quail is in another breeder s hands it is their bird while it s definitely on the breeder to only offer good quality stock it s also a buyer s responsibility to inspect the birds on the day of purchase and i would avoid any breeder that won t let you handle inspect the bird before purchase to look for physical deformities discharge from eyes nose mouth vent parasites etc in case a breeder missed anything you can absolutely refuse a bird at the point of sale i would even say that if a bird dies within the first 3 days unless you fucked up real bad or transport fucked up real bad you could probably take that to the breeder to dispute but past that given how much care and environment can vary and how fast birds can decline if their needs aren t well met it s not on the breeder if a bird dies or gets ill in your care they sold you a healthy bird you agreed it was healthy by purchasing it or you didn t purchase it right and anything after that is up to you and this is the standard understanding in all fowl breeding it is on the breeder to provide the animal they say they are providing and to do selection for the highest quality they can achieve but it is also on the buyer to put in work up front to learn about the animal they want to keep and be prepared to keep it there is an understanding health testing isn t really done npip registration is the only one that is common and people generally support breeders doing npip testing and that you re buying small farm animals as is unless you are paying for more and a lot of people fall short on their end of the bargain on both sides and a lot of new folks get really mad because no one told them about the standard understanding and they didn t spend any time in the community to learn it for themselves before they got birds and they didn t bother to put any work in on their end to find a reputable breeder just went with whoever was cheapest their local big box farm store that doesn t give a shit about the chicks just how many they can sell you the stuff for care for additionally part of this difference is cost and time and literal availability because testing just doesn t exist and the rest is that there s a severe lack of education in the farming world i don t mean this meanly but daily i see folks who have no idea what they re doing getting into raising their own food because they want to be self sufficient with zero understanding that they re so so reliant upon infrastructure and capitalism still like you are not self sufficient because you buy feed from tsc instead of eggs at the store you have misconstrued the point of backyard keeping and because livestock are easily accessible and often easy to keep provided you ve got a place for them and access to food for them they actually don t completely fall on their face i see a lot of struggle though and at the end of the day i simply just don t trust most people s opinion on what happened their birds because they re likely wrong to explain if someone bought birds from me and one passed away immediately like within 24 hours and that s most likely to be it flushed up and broke its neck i might consider just replacing it so that they don t have a bad experience getting quail whether or not this had anything to do with my or my bird quality if someone bought birds from me and they all started dying within a day or two of being brought home i would not just replace the birds because regardless of what accusations they re going to jump to i would not assume it is a problem with my stock unless all of my birds start doing the same here stuff like you cooked with teflon around birds is not my fault even if you do it within 10 minutes of getting my birds home to your house similarly if someone a year down the road comes back and tells me that their bird died from genetic issues i am going to ask them to prove it even after a week in a new location a bird can pick up something like hpai and die in days they can hit their heads and someone might tell me they think it died because i sold them a sick bird i ve had people come back to me to tell me their mice died within 3 days only to find out through asking questions that their water source wasn t working and the mice likely died of dehydration i ve had someone way back before i stopped selling peafowl before 3 months of age come back and tell me their chicks died a week after they got them and when asked they said they were keeping them in a temperature controlled coop outside ie 70ish degrees fahrenheit when they should be at 95 105f i m surprised it took as long as it did and there must surely have been signs but they blamed those signs on the birds being ill instead of dying of hypothermia because you kept them so cold they couldn t function and 99 999999999 of the people who come at breeders like this will not have any actual proof and will not get a necropsy done not just they didn t they will refuse and never took the bird to a vet at all at best they guessed off of what random people on the internet guessed when they described the problem often without pics and those random people are usually just as inexperienced as the person asking which is why most breeders don t have guarantees or replacement policies for livestock and with good reason some breeders may take birds back but that s a huge biosecurity risk i will take quail back if someone doesn t want them but they are hard culled before i leave the parking lot because i don t know what that person had on their farm for diseases and parasites and i m doing full decontamination procedures when i get home i will take peafowl back as a last resort i ve never had to but i will preferentially help them to find a new home without my home as a midway stop i have done this i also put a lot more work into making sure my peafowl go to good knowledgeable homes that are well prepared the first time because they take so much more specific and difficult care quail take basically nothing they re super beginner friendly it s pretty hard to fuck them up and most of the distress posts i see are either chick ftt or temperament problems because most breeders and keepers are just culling the issues they see and breeding better in the next generation so is it viable to test and guarantee anything in the same way as breeders do for dogs no because they aren t dogs the guarantee that should be offered with quail is not that the breeder has health tested anything but that they have been diligent and knowledgeable about their hard culling practices and that they would not allow defects or illnesses to persist in their flock even if it means culling the entire flock as some illnesses do require i guess it boils down to small farm animals raised for food are not the same as dogs being raised for companionship they shouldn t be treated as the same animal and largely aren t the expectations for each are greatly different it s not really about the length of the life it s about the availability of tests or treatments and the end purpose of the animal and what methods are used to prevent the decline of health in the population not just the individual animal and it s about the spread of responsibilities in the process of breeding and acquisition this got long but it s complicated and one of the biggest problems is the divide between pets and agricultural stock where people who keep pets don t understand why food animals are not handled the same as companion animals and the answer is largely because we eat them and there s a lot you either...