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description=It is interesting to me that Todd Bentley and the Lakeland Revival brought charismatic revivalism into the spotlight, which inadvertently put a magnifying glass on Peter Wagner s apostolic reformation. Now only weeks later, charismatic theology and new apostolic reformation are once again in the spotlight due to connections with Sarah Palin. It looks to me…;

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Text of the page (random words):
l always include times of refreshing rest and renewal and should result in restoration reconciliation and redemption so many great r words i would vote for the term revelationalism a la eph 1 17 19 although it would be wide open for gnostic abuse i keep asking that the god of our lord jesus christ the glorious father may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation so that you may know him better i pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints and his incomparably great power for us who believe reply joseph ostrander says september 12 2008 at 12 01 pm yeah revelationalism catchy and you re r ight so many r ich r words that have such deep meaning for the saints in the english language i find that a curious observation reply inheritorofheaven says september 12 2008 at 4 05 pm about your statement regarding idolatry in the section about laying on hands i have seen it played out by a number of folks it seems that it can be treated like magic if only this person lays on hands or in this place etc i have seen an effect like it in sacramental churches too in regards to the bread and wine being almost magical and also the anointing with oil i come from a sacramental background but with charismatic leanings and when i pray with someone who wishes to be anointed with oil for healing i will usually say to them that we are doing this in accordance with scripture and read it and that this is not some sort of magic potion or something reply volkmar1108 says september 12 2008 at 9 02 pm i think i ve walked past that building in the above picture in san diego grace do you have any info about the location t reply grace says september 12 2008 at 9 20 pm inheritor i believe it is more than almost magical in sacramental churches my understanding is that it is considered a supernatural reality transubstantiation interesting point about not viewing anointing oil as a magic potion a little off topic this summer at a family reunion my aunts were talking about a lady who brought a vial of water from the jordan river to be used during her baptism in a local lake one of the aunts said well why didn t she just get baptized in the jordan while she was there that would have been better i bit my tongue to keep from asking how it would have been better would she have been more dead to sin more alive in christ more baptized with more newness of life anyway your comment reminded me how we sometimes attribute magical qualities to things that seem spiritual or religious tom i googled it it is posted on flickr by elphster it says the church is on western avenue in southern la reply taylor says september 12 2008 at 11 17 pm latter rain doctrine teaches that the nt pentecost was the former rain leaving the latter rain yet to come taylor ah info source reply joseph ostrander says september 12 2008 at 11 18 pm with regard to the apostolic traditions rcc eo there is the belief that a hands on participation is the connection of a real spiritual dynamic now tangible in our physical existence many believers of all stripes accept the spiritual reality apart from a physical manifestation the rich tradition of holy communion eucharist only one of the more obvious sacramental expressions that is meant to represent more than just the ritual elements this is an intriguing consideration really to actually have faith in a worship form that does not result in what any of us would consider a miraculous expression yet we all would agree that the most miraculous of spiritual transformation cannot be quantified or measured empirically i think there are indeed physical places or acts rituals that can be a focal point of faith for those that believe it is more than just the physical parts that we can perceive i may not want to believe that toronto is a spout where the glory comes out but many did make that pilgrimage there in search of a touch from god however it is they wished to believe it i was never a toronto blessing pilgrim or one to lourdes or fatima but there are some dear saints that have experienced a tangible spiritual awareness while touring the holy land maybe god is not more concentrated there in a rational theological sense but those places can be the focal point of an individuals faith that does exceed the geographical real estate it is identified with i am not one to feel any urge to go to so and so local or seek this individual to lay hands on me nor am i one that is convinced the religious rituals of the apostolic faith traditions are only effective because of the specific methodology they wish to preserve practice i am not anti tradition in that sense but there must be more than just going through the motions that only represent a spiritual reality vs being something that can be experienced at a deeper spiritual reality i think each individual must derive an essence of the divine in the daily routines of the day even if they include what is categorized as religious practice discipline ritual christian superstition is not to be confused with faithful practice or even traditional rituals but we can make them out to be something more than the spiritual component they represent by building up the argument that simply going through the motions is somehow efficacious no matter what the condition of the heart is of those that do them reply pingback in the coracle links for 2008 09 13 inheritorofheaven says september 13 2008 at 7 33 pm transubstantiation is a roman catholic view the bread and wine become body and blood with more explanation as to why we still see bread and wine consubstantiation is a more lutheran view body and blood presence and life are received with in and under the earthly forms of bread and wine in which case it is a mystery as to how this occurs but it does so according to christ s word reply grace says september 14 2008 at 6 43 am inheritor i think the mystery is in how many views and doctrines we could have about this reply inheritorofheaven says september 14 2008 at 7 02 pm i like dietrich bonhoeffer s assessment of what we do too much of he says we ask the wrong questions we ask what when how etc he says the question is who i think this is a more unifying question in whom are we baptized who is present in communion who is the head of the church and like little children in sunday school class we should answer ever time jesus reply pingback kingdom leadership after lakeland part 2 considering various sources futuristguy jonathan chm says july 8 2009 at 5 19 pm holy laughter holy bark holy drunkard and etc are not found in the book of acts during the pentecost some charismatic churches might use the word leap laugh drunkard and etc from the old and new testaments to support these movements however bear in mind that the word leap laugh drunkard and etc are mentioned instead of the full phrase of holy laughter holy bark and etc what if these practices are not from the work of the holy spirit the insisting that these practices are from the work of holy spirit has caused one to abuse the name of the holy spirit and it would have grieved the holy spirit to accept the wrong saying that these are the work of them however the holy spirit does not do it one has indeed blaspheme against the holy spirit by abusing the name of the holy spirit despite he does not do it the blasphemy against the holy spirit cannot be forgivable according to the new testament reply jonathan chm says july 16 2009 at 5 30 pm charismatic people might argue that love and the so called gift could exist side by side in charismatic churches they might argue that charismatic people have more love than non charismatic people since their love extends even to every household since they exercise miraculous healings publicly so as many people could be healed from their illnesses not only that they could even take that opportunity to preach to non christians through rallies they could even condemn non charismatic churches since they are not so actively involved in preaching as compared to charismatic churches john calvin spoke in tongues acts 2 8 10 and how hear we every man in our own tongue wherein we were born parthians medes from the above verses we know that tongues are indeed languages and or dialects do you know whether john calvin spoke in foreign languages and or dialects if you could not prove whether he spoke in languages and or dialects we could not ascertain whether john calvin was speaking in tongues or he just speaks nonsensical words bear in mind tongues in the book of acts are languages dialects if a person speaks not in foreign languages dialects he simply speaks garbage and not in tongues 1 corinthians 14 21 in the law it is written with men of other tongues and other lips will i speak with this people and yet for all that will they not hear me saith the lord as the phrase other tongues is mentioned in 1 corinth 14 21 with the phrase i speak with this people it implies that tongues are definitely languages and or dialects or else how god could converse with us then 1 corinth 14 2 for that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men but unto god for no man understandeth him for 1 corinth 14 4 he that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself for instance if tongues are not languages and or dialects and it cannot be understood by the speaker how the tongues could edify the speaker himself since 1 corinth 14 4 mentions that tongues have to edify the speaker 1 corinth 14 10 there are it may be so many kinds of voices in the world and none of them is without significant as the phrase many kind of voices is mentioned in 1 corinth 14 10 with the phrase the world it definitely refers to languages and or dialects in the world instead of outside the world ie alien language mcarthur claimed to have other tongues that could not be understood by human beings are not biblical what if the so called tongues in contemporary charismatic churches are not from the work of the holy spirit the comment that their tongues are from god or the holy spirit or jesus christ would cause one to abuse the name of them and it in turn blasphemes any one of them 1 corinth 14 14 for if i pray in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret the above verse demands a tongue spoker to pray for his understanding of tongues 1 corinth 14 37 if any man think himself to be a prophet or spiritual let him acknowledge that the things that i write unto you are the commandments of the lord the phrase the things that i write to you in 1 corinth 14 37 is in present tense and it implies that the words that paul just delivered for his message to the church of corinthians is indeed god s commandment and this includes 1 corinth 14 14 1 corinth 14 15 what is it then i will pray with the spirit and i will pray with understanding also i will sing with spirit and i will sing with understanding also for instance the speaker could not understand the tongue how could they sing and pray with understanding and this contradicts 1 corinth 14 15 reply jonathan chm says july 16 2009 at 5 31 pm matthew 12 31 32 therefore i say to you every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men but the blasphemy against the spirit will not be forgiven men anyone who speak against a word the son of man it will be forgiven him but whoever speak against the holy spirit it will not be forgiven him either in this age or in the age to come as the phrase speak against the holy spirit is mentioned in matthew 12 31 32 with the phrase blasphemy against the spirit it implies that a person blasphemes against the holy spirit even if he speaks against the holy spirit the same for abusing the name of the holy spirit in which it might have grieved the holy spirit to accept the false saying what if the works are not from the holy spirit the word forgiven is mentioned in matthew 12 31 32 with the phrase every sin blasphemy it implies that all blasphemies are to be considered as sin or else why we should need god s forgiveness for the blasphemies the same in abusing god s or jesus name to support their miracles are from god or jesus respectively and these are the acts of blasphemies to be considered as sins too reply jonathan chm says july 16 2009 at 6 03 pm definition of blasphemy in hebrews greek blas fe mi blaphemia in classical greek and hebrews means primarily defamation or evil speaking in general a word of evil omen hence impious and irreverent speech against god the above is the extract pertaining to the meaning of blasphemy in greek consider carefully about holy bark holy laugher and etc for instance if these are not the work of holy spirit the abusing the name of holy spirit by saying that these are the work of holy spirit is indeed delivery of irreverent speech against the holy spirit for instance if these are not the work of the holy spirit the insisting that these should be directed from the work of the holy spirit might have abused the name of the holy spirit and caused defamation of its name and one might have in turn grieved the holy spirit since these might not be the work of the holy spirit the holy spirit might be ended up to bear the name for the doer of holy bark holy laugher and etc what if it has grieved the holy spirit by insisting that these are the work of the holy spirit our ignorance has ultimately caused the ultimate abusing and or blasphemy against the holy spirit healings in contemporary charismatic churches in miraculous healings among charismatic churches today we could easily spot out that many sick will fall down before the healers lay hands on them however many sick would remain unhealed after the rally despite they did fall down before the healers i e pastors that perform miraculous healings god is definitely powerful and can heal all kinds of sicknesses however there is a deficiency in the healings in contemporary charismatic world what if the wonders are not the work of the holy spirit the commenting to abuse the name of the holy spirit that it is he that does the work might have grieved the holy spirit in case if these are not the work of the holy spirit and it ends up that one has abused the name of the holy spirit and has ultimately blasphemed against the holy spirit all blasphemies whether towards the holy spirit or god or jesus christ are to be considered as sins matthew 12 31 32 therefore i say to you every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men but the blasphemy against the spirit will not be forgiven men anyone who speak against a word the son of man it will be forgiven him but whoever speak against the holy spirit it will not be forgiven him either in this age or in the age to come as the phrase speak against the holy spirit is mentioned in matthew 12 31 32 with the phrase blasphemy against the spirit it implies that a person blasphemes against the holy spirit even if he speaks against the holy spirit the same for abusing the name of the holy spirit in which it might have grieved...