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or all posted by alan stewart carl 3 13 pm 5 comments thursday november 10 2005 gay marriage is all about values cross posted on the moderate republican one thing i ve been thinking about was a letter to the editor that showed up in today s minneapolis star tribune it s an argument that i hear all the time concerning gay marriage i used to agree with it but i don t anymore the impetus of this is a column written by the strib s token conservative columnist katherine kersten being center right in my politics i like to see conservative writers but i perfer ones with brains ms kersten doesn t have one or a heart for that matter that talks about how canada is sliding towards gommorah because of it s support for gay marriage whenever people start talking about gay marriage you will hear an argument from our side here s an example katherine kersten states that the proposal to preserve same sex marriage will be one of the biggest issues of the next legislative session if so shame on us we have children without health care traffic congestion working parents unable to afford housing and underfunded schools if we allow ourselves to be diverted and avoid the real moral issues before our state how can we kneel in prayer before the god who calls us to lives of justice and compassion now there was a time in my life that i would have agreed with this writer but i don t anymore why because what this person is saying basically is that gay marriage doesn t matter it isn t a moral issue we have more important things do deal with than two guys getting hitched the message this line of thinking sends is that gay marriage isn t important if we are saying that to the general public you know what happens the general public will listen the fact is gay marriage does matter it matters to millions of gay americans who have or are intending to have a life partner someone to share their lives with it matters when one person in gay couple gets sick and the other person can t visit because he s not a legal relative in the eyes of the state it happens when one partner can t get the other s social security benefits when the other one dies it matters a few weeks back log cabin president pat guerriero was in town my friend and fellow republican mark was able to get him on a local radio station that has a lot of conservative programming he shared a story of two gay men in vermont who have been partnered for 50 years one served his country in war the other was a teacher they are both in their 80s one is very ill and will die soon and as it stands now the surviving spouse won t get the dying man s social security benefits that is a moral issue these two men have given of themselves to help others and this is how society treats them the anti gay crowd have one thing right about this issue they know it matters and will do what it takes to stop gays from marrying and hopefully put us back in the closet why are we and our allies so scared to deal with this honestly and say this is about values and morals how can one be moral and deny people things like seeing a sick partner maybe it s easier for me because i m somewhat more conservative but values do matter not the one that the religious right spouts but the values my parents taught me about being kind to people and tolerant of others i think we need to start talking about values getting married is a value it matters and it s important we need to start acting like it is posted by dennis sanders 10 36 am 9 comments wednesday november 09 2005 and costco democrats the positive thinking continues apace here is the companion piece to the weekly standard article on sam s club republicans it s a washington monthly collection called the new progressivism again i highlight this partly because there are some worthy ideas i particularly like kevin drum s proposal to shift the burden of identity theft from consumers to banks but i also want to point out that the smart folks in both parties are coming up with some very similar suggestions the partisan age we re in is going to crumble it s just a matter of time posted by tom strong 5 08 pm 2 comments yet another tax proposal by guest blogger micah over at seth chalmer s place this one is labeled the progressive consumption tax and it is intriguing basically it s a tax on bank withdrawals with the tax rate going up based on the amount of withdrawal per year so it s not a sales tax per se but rather a tax on cash spent there are complications some of which micah accounts for most notably how to incorporate the good deductions we currently have such as health care and business expenses read it and give em some feedback posted by tom strong 4 09 pm 3 comments more talking points not the daily kos gets more attention but the best big democratic blog by far is the talking points memo cafe the range of views expressed there especially by the featured bloggers is far more diverse than what gets featured at kos and the best part of tpmcafe is their book club which actually features intelligent people engaging in passionate well supported arguments over policies ideas and visions for the future right now they re debating gene sperling s book the pro growth progressive and oh boy has this one lit up the place for anyone interested in discussing economic policies at a level beyond higher taxes lower taxes this is a must read posted by tom strong 3 49 pm 0 comments bad laws from the blue and the red a post election rant technically i m retired from blogging but yesterday s election results have managed to irritate me enough to prompt a brief return to this forum two jurisdictions one red the other blue passed laws that are just plain foolish and demonstrate the narrowing of thought that can occur no matter where people fall on the ideological spectrum the first case comes from san francisco where the city s residents passed a law banning the possession of handguns and ammunition within the city residents will not even be allowed to have a gun in their own homes i am continuously amazed with liberals who will scream bloody murder anytime they see the first amendment being infringed but pretend like the second amendment doesn t exist we can t pick and choose which amendments we like best and while i know guns are pretty dangerous things and that the second amendment is oddly worded any serious study of that amendment will reveal that our founders wanted to ensure we could own a gun free speech is dangerous too so is giving violent criminals fair trials where they can get off on a technicality our founders knew that freedom comes with risk and enshrined that balance in the constitution the people of san francisco have no authority to override the second amendment anymore than early twentieth century mississippi had the authority to override the 14th and 15th i could go on about the ineffectiveness of such laws see washington dc but there s more irritating election results to discuss so let s move on good ole san francisco also passed a measure encouraging high school and universities to ban military recruiters i have no problem with people who protest the war but this kind of action and this is hardly the first case of it is abhorrent first it assumes that young men and women are too stupid to make up their own minds and have to be protected from the big bad military secondly it is a clear violation of freedom of speech and association to ban one employer but allow all others access what would san franciscans say if a conservative city banned disney from recruiting because of that company s gay friendly attitudes they d be outraged just as those of us not trapped in liberal groupthink should be outraged that san francisco would approve of such a measure finally let s move on to my home state of texas where my friends and neighbors just passed an amendment to the state constitution banning homosexual marriage this was clearly a very pressing issue that had to solved before the state addressed our crumbling public health system and piss poor schools i know i m in a minority here but how in the world is gay marriage a threat really and don t give me that b s about slippery slopes and how gay marriage would lead to polygamy and bestiality and god knows what all those other examples involve exploitative relationships where one person is exercising depraved power over another that s not the case with homosexual relationships which are formed through mutual love do we as a nation not support mutual loving relationships is commitment between two people that abhorrent that we have to run out and ban the act our culture is not threatened by accepting loving committed relationships our culture is threatened when we pretend such relationships are evil when we exploit religion and inflame prejudice and pretend we are saving ourselves we are saving nothing and don t tell me the bible condemns homosexuality the bible condemns loaning money too and we aren t rushing to the polls to ban banks in fact the bible barely mentions homosexuality and when it does many biblical scholars will tell you that the references were directed to the greek and roman practice of older men coercing adolescent boys into sexual relationships that clearly is immoral but consensual love between two men or two women is not a sin and is not condemned in the bible outside of scripture itself why would anyone want to believe that god would let two people fall in love and then condemn that love as sin where does jesus or any of his disciples ever claim love to be a sin they don t and that s the moral guidance i choose to follow i may be wrong who knows but if i m going to err in this world i d rather err on the side of mercy and grace i wish the people of my state felt the same apparently there s still a lot of convincing to do thank you for reading this rant posted by alan stewart carl 1 08 pm 11 comments tuesday november 08 2005 paris and normandy and toulouse is burning cross posted on the moderate republican as the paris suburbs heck as most of france is awash in violence i ve been doing some thinking and listening i believe that there are lessons for both liberals and conservatives in the wake of the recent fighting first the liberals those on the left tend to look to europe as some kind of heavenly realm where the government takes care of everything and there is no poverty or racism as there is in the united states some not all europeans were quick to criticize the us after the chaos that erupted in new orleans after hurricane katrina both the leftists here and europeans have looked at the united states as a nation with a broken social model that is dog eat dog i m not here to say the us has a better system we clearly have problems as katrina showed but the fires in the french republic show that at least in france there is still much work to do on social issues the riots have revealed what was in our faces and especially white french faces all along an underclass of persons of color who face very little opportunity for economic freedom it also revealed something conservatives have known for a long time that government alone can t solve all the problems this is from an editorial in today s washington post it s also too facile to say that french authorities have ignored the problems billions have been spent on urban renewal high rise projects have been torn down and enterprise zones created much as in some american inner cities as in the united states interlinked problems of jobs schools crime and discrimination have not easily yielded to government solutions yet until now many in france assumed that what they regard as a superior social model protected them from the eruptions of lawlessness that in recent years have touched los angeles miami and new orleans this isn t to say that government has no role in alleviating poverty but thinking that having big government as the french clearly do will solve it the problem is foolish the size of government matters less than the effectiveness of it and it seems that the french government hasn t done as well in that effect now to conservatives when it comes to matters of race conservatives want to believe in the concept of colorblindness meaning government should not consider race in government programs being a republican i resonate with that ideal however in reality what works in theory doesn t work in practice france has followed that model basically saying everyone is french not regarding one s ethnic background the results have not been pleasant from the post editorial french interior minister mr sarkozy recently suggested that france abandon the pretense that all of its citizens including an estimated 5 million muslims are treated equally and adopt affirmative action policies conservatives here have wanted to role back affirmative action policies i can understand that as an african american i ve benefitted from these policies but also resent that they exist since they put race right up front but i think it is a pipe dream to think that americans can just be well americans for african americans we have had a history of racial discrimination that has presented itself in many ways including employment and education if we abandoned affirmative action tomorrow i doubt that schools and workplaces would continue to be diverse and try to help disadvantaged populations a fellow conservative friend of mine who is asian american said it best you have to correct a bias with a bias american society can t just say to african americans as well as other ethnic groups you re free and the walk away there is still the problem of inequality that has to be addressed this is what has happened in france and we can see what happened listen i don t like affirmative action but at least for now we still need it i would mend it though to be more sensitive to help raise poor blacks and whites out of poverty since now it seems to benefit minorities with means more conservatives who think that everything will be rosy if affirmative action were to dissappear are kidding themselves it will be interesting to see how france works all this out let s hope for the best posted by dennis sanders 9 44 am 1 comments contributors amba alan stewart carl tom strong contact us e mail the yellow line contributor blogs ambivablog charging rino the moderate republican thoughts of an american centrist other blogs we recommend the american moderate party andrew sullivan aubreyj org booker rising bull moose buzzmachine donklephant centerfield coalition for darfur dean s world in search of purple a little left of centrist the mighty middle mind of battles the modo blog the moderate voice the new donkey nofrowns nation punditdrome the reaction non blog sites we recommend the centrist coalition independent nation the interfaith alliance the new republic radical centrism the radical middle the weekly standard previous posts read alan stewart carl i m back and staying in the middle of it all i m back but not here merry christmas gay mar...