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description=Nurse informaticist Kody Johnston joins Formstack on how no-code, low-code, and citizen development ease healthcare burnout and improve patient care.;

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this wrong but your title is nurse informaticist innovation project manager that s mouthful but that s really cool so tell us about it kody johnston good job good job saying that that s awesome so you re correct i m a nurse informaticist by skilled trade and i also service as a innovation project manager and technically what i do at the healthcare organization i work at we really sit in the post acute care sector of healthcare so you have acute care you have post acute care and the acute care is the hospitals and post acute care is like the home delivery of healthcare and so really what i do on a day to day basis is really help any innovation projects we have with our partners with our external vendors even internally how we re improving things project managers but i m afforded the opportunity to be a nurse informaticist as well which what that is in nursing is a specialized vein where you are pretty much little liaison between it and the clinical departments of the company you re serving clinicals saying hey these are needs we have these are maybe processes that need to be automated these are system changes that need to happen process improvement at its core and then you can go to it and you re aware of their processes like hey it this is what needs to happen let me help with data normalization let me help with data warehousing even infrastructure the whole vein of nursing informatics in and of itself has so many unicorn and specializations you can really focus on and so i would say at least in my role currently i m more on that infrastructure side attempting to help as much as possible in the data and the automation side of it lindsay mcguire and why healthcare why do you think there s an opportunity in healthcare for no code and low code to make an impact kody johnston ooh that is a good question a loaded answer too so currently healthcare is in a transitional landscape and a volatile one and what i mean by that is very similar to other job sectors healthcare has to account for many things that aren t unique to it some of those are regulations with data privacy hipaa hitrust if there s any infosec people listening to this you get what i m saying and then some of it is the fact that healthcare has to deal with patients the very livelihood of individuals are what end users of no codes and healthcare organizations if they re clinicians they re dealing with on a day to day basis and because of that and other things like the covid 19 pandemic no code is a strategically placed tool that can meet many solutions as it pertains to clinical solutions patient solutions operational solutions and health and life science solutions i would say that healthcare can really reap from that personally i just haven t seen too much in healthcare i really think they re at a discovery stage of it and it s progressing via the advent of technology vendors really investing in it and also organizations and healthcare institutions themselves really starting to get on the train lindsay mcguire what is innovation in healthcare to you and then where do healthcare organizations go forward to being more innovative as well kody johnston i ll give the albeit at least in my studies there s not one universal agreed upon definition of what innovation is sometimes i see it siloed into process innovation continuous innovation aspects that i do think comprise the greater whole but to me what it is in healthcare is i actually look at it from the lens of practical innovation so in 2021 west monroe their national digital service firm they created this definition of what practical innovation is and it s really solving problems that matter with real commercial applications is how they coin it and it s not like just creating an idea to create an idea it s not about thinking of that cool thing hey technology can meet this or we can use this to fix this problem it s attacking issues whether it s our patients in healthcare or our internal issues and i recommend focusing on internal at first with new ideas that actually provide meaningful value and leveraging successful technologies out there for that practical innovation sense and as clinicians something that s not known by the greater public is clinicians in general in healthcare wherever they work each vein of it has their own code of ethics we have the hippocratic oath that really services doctors but what no code can do in how i see innovation as practical innovation merging those two things it lets our clinicians truly have something practical to operate at the top of their licensure because a lot of our clinicians don t know and you can find articles about this is they re innovating every day and they don t even know it they might have to do something in healthcare to give a treatment modality a way that s individualized for the patient we actually have regulation we have to adhere to with that but there s not a lot of technological advancements such as no code such as citizen development and low code i ll throw into that that really service the clinicians to be innovators in a technological vein and do it successfully so long winded but that practical innovation since really partnered with letting our clinicians operate at the top of their licensure i would fuse those things into a definition of innovation lindsay mcguire i think that s a brilliant way to think about it especially because a lot of the times i see people when they hear the word innovation or it s brought up in a conversation they do automatically revert to that pie in the sky big huge monumental ideas and things that are going to change the world but if you bring it really far down like you said into that practical innovation which is perfect because our podcast is called practically genius so yes love it kody johnston hey that was not planned so there you go lindsay mcguire but the way that you ve talked about that it really is a genius way to think about it because then that level sets and allows everyone to see themselves as their own innovator and i think that is powerful and it enables people to see themselves in a different creative light and then they can actually see what you said that meaningful value of the things that they re doing you also talked a little bit earlier in that segment about automation and looking for ways to automate within your role and so i think there is a lot of that practical innovation in automation so you talk a little bit about either some of the projects you ve done on your own or just things you ve seen in the healthcare market about where automation can play a role in the next year or two kody johnston so again healthcare s unique in every healthcare institution will have to tailor per their need i think that goes without saying i m just going to give three examples where i see high viability high yielding no and low code possibilities and they re going to be really specific to healthcare but i would say the first of those three is really regarding our case management and our care transition capabilities in healthcare and just to describe what that is if you re a healthcare worker you ll understand listening to this on the podcast but care transition from a clinician point of view is like when we have someone in the hospital and they re being discharged but they have to go on service to another location so in post acute it might be that skilled nursing facility it might be that home health agency in some ways it might be hospice or whatever it is in that handoff there s documentation in healthcare lots of documentation of its redundant and because it s normally involved with external parties having to integrate somehow with each other and communicate and care coordinate it just makes it really redundant and so where no and low code where i m seeing it is leveraging successful tools enterprise grade no and low code tools is how i would put it and using it as an integration hub in many ways to connect maybe with that ehr via apis to connect with some external tools that we use that we maybe can t replace because we have too much critical factors into it and building a communication mode within it building that automation of processee mode where it frees up the capacity we re talking about workforce burden really freeing that up to allow case managers to allow clinicians to do more of what they were made to do and really care for the patients and handle this in a great way and so case management kind of filters into that but there s lots of tools that i would say are much quicker when it comes to giving no code tools that can be a face and an automation of an existing ehr and letting people dissect information quickly and then act on it appropriately and maybe get that integration where that dme provider they click the button and cues something to the dme provider or to the doctor here s a button and it cues to them if they have that bidirectional communication but in that domain of case management care transition there s a lot of viability related 3 reasons to use no code in healthcare lindsay mcguire you make a huge point my husband actually is a doctor and he works as a consult liaison in psychiatry and i see it all the time in just the very tiny little window of his work i get to see of how much time he has to take on transferring that data ensuring everyone on the care team knows what s happening especially because he s working in a general inpatient experience and he s not just in the psychiatric ward or the behavioral health unit and there are so many different people within that process and they spend so much time on collecting that data sharing that data making sure that everyone has the correct data and there s just so much opportunity to automate so much of those processes and like you said that workforce burden i mean the amount of time our healthcare workers spent on paperwork is bonkers kody johnston healthcare again just getting on the uniqueness of it clinicians they re really involved with patient centered care and so the second of these three archetypes i m presenting is using no and low code to enhance patient experiences and really leverage them to enhance patient journeys those are things that it touches on the workforce board and because our clinicians subsequently are giving care if we can do things to help patient engagement and drive those factors that are going to help quality scores that now healthcare institutions have to account for and honestly the bottom line s either being taken away or given more of from the quality initiatives they support each other and that s what i love about no code in the use cases in healthcare is because normally when you re touching a case management or a care transition tool you re also in some ways touching patient engagement maybe secondarily and it s not something a lot of people are cognizant of or vice versa if i m focusing on a patient journey this patient with chf comes in i now am using low code to automate communication pathways but whenever we re doing that we re freeing up our workforce and we re making their life better and especially if we re making them citizen developers where they re ideating these scenes and they re helping build these scenes at the inception point that culture practical innovation it s all just feeding itself and sometimes we don t do a good job i would say as citizen developers or no and low code users of creating that value systemically of what all of our creations are doing and so i just want to call that out i just see it affecting multiple modalities of care at least in healthcare along the continuum lindsay mcguire i really like that idea of creating a culture of practical innovation because i even see what you re talking about correlating to the data that we found through our state of digital maturity report we found that the less digitally mature organization the more resistant they are to change and the harder it is to change and so what advice do you have for those organizations that might be a little bit more behind the curve they re not as open to that innovative thinking and that trying new tools and bringing in things like no code and low code how can they change that this is the way it s always been done kind of mentality kody johnston i just remember in my early days as a clinician being a innovative mind coming across these burdens but almost not feeling like i had the authority if you will in certain areas to do what i wanted to do but in reality that statement wasn t as true as i thought it was and so advice i would give to people is really start with relationships especially if you re listening to this podcast and you re a manager if you re in a place where you have some decision making power start with the relationships and truly try to help people solve their problems a question i love to ask with no code and low code is what tools are you equipping your employees with to problem solve and to problem solve successfully when you ask higher level managers that question it really gets the wheels spinning or especially we re in innovation department so you know that first part being relationships but the second part is i really advise anyone that is passionate about knowing low code that is truly in an enterprise setting that is in a business whether it s matrix or whether it s a top down hierarchy start investing in citizen development start gathering education in what citizen development is which is to put it in layman s term it s really the governance strategy and the tools and documentation you need to be successful and the enterprise buying in to no and low code and doing things successfully where the business unit partners with the it unit but in your relationship talk with it start talking to them about this stuff picking their brain and then as you re investing in citizen development and building a culture of hey what is a citizen developer oh it s just someone who can use no code technologies to build automation in these applications and you re starting to get movement with that then you re already knocking out two huge tactical things that are necessary as you gather the value maybe as you re allowed to prototype if there s existing no and low code tools in the organization in painting that success use case that you can then go to the executive stakeholders of a company and say hey not only is this our value prop but this is what we built here s a couple prototypes and it was with me along the way here s the documentation we have from citizen development best practices to actually show you that we re not just introducing shadow it which is a risk that it consider and with certain no and low code tools there can be that change management resistant factor but using relationships citizen development and then just starting somewhere being that third one just be courageous don t leave your vision don t leave what you re convicted about just continue the way no matter how many nos you ge...