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n idea that in september 1325 edward fell into a trap set for him by isabella who was hoping to get her son under her control to use him as a weapon against his father every option available to edward ii by that time was fraught with possible risk and whatever he did might ultimately have led to his deposition in one way or another if he had in fact gone to france instead of sending his son perhaps he would have been kidnapped or assassinated and historians would now be asking how he could have been so stupid as to travel to france himself when making his son duke of aquitaine and sending him instead would have been so much more sensible and would not have brought about his downfall or death they d probably be declaring that edward ii going to france in person was exactly what queen isabella and roger mortimer wanted him to do and that by doing so he fell into the trap they had laid for him and that they had intended for years to have him assassinated or kidnap him and force him to abdicate his throne once he made the stupid mistake of leaving england if only he had sent his son to france in his place he could have foiled their dastardly plans isabella of france and roger mortimer were both highly able and intelligent people certainly but it s as though they re omniscient narrators writing a story that no one else even knows they re part of and while all the other characters in the story wrongly think they have agency and are making their own choices they are in fact being controlled and manipulated at every stage it reminds me a bit of the way mahaut countess of artois the mother in law of isabella s brother philip v of france is written in maurice druon s accursed kings series of novels druon s fictional mahaut is a murderous über schemer bumping off philip s brother louis x and louis s days old posthumous son john i so that philip will become king of france and mahaut s daughter jeanne will be queen consort it s not that a baby who was only days old sadly though not terribly unsurprisingly died of natural causes in an age of horrifically high infant mortality no it s that mahaut poisoned him so his uncle would become king of france this take on things is essentially pointing to some random or fairly improbable event and claiming this particular person totally meant for that to happen and was responsible for it edward ii spent weeks changing his mind about who should travel to france to pay homage to charles iv himself or his son and no one could possibly have known beforehand who would turn up in paris because even edward himself didn t know until pretty well the last minute but isabella and roger totally planned the whole thing and had always known that edward of windsor not edward ii would be the one who stepped off the boat honest guv they did maybe all this scheming stuff makes a great fictional tale full of drama intrigue and murder but does it really bear much resemblance to the overwhelming majority of real human beings and how they behave modern writers often describe isabella of france as highly manipulative and sure the way she s been depicted in recent decades as someone who could foretell the future and was able to plot things nearly twenty five years in advance does make her look pretty darn manipulative but is that the real isabella though or a fictional character who s been given her name most people just muddle through they react to situations as they occur they make whatever decisions seem best at the time but which they might come to regret later or which might well prove to be disastrous decisions oh and another thing this whole hindsight issue somewhat reminds me of is the death of diana princess of wales and the endless conspiracy theories it spawned tragic accidents and bad things including car crashes sometimes also happen to celebrities but it s as though some people are special and should therefore be immune to random events and we must create some shadowy nefarious plot to explain their deaths another issue is that although it later became reasonably common for unsuccessful english kings to be deposed or forced to abdicate and subsequently executed or murdered in 1326 27 it had never been done before it was revolutionary the common modern assumption that lots of people both in england and on the continent planned for years in the 1320s to depose edward ii ignores the fact that there was no precedent for such a thing it s so easy for us centuries later to see what happened to richard ii in 1399 and henry vi in 1461 and 1471 and edward v in 1483 and charles i in 1649 and think ah yes it s pretty easy to get rid of a king look at all the times it s happened throughout english history therefore people during edward ii s era must also have known that it was pretty easy to get rid of a king but they didn t how could they how could roger mortimer in 1323 even conceive of the forced abdication of the king of england let alone imagine that he of all people might end up ruling the kingdom during the minority of that king s son events of 1326 27 tend to give the impression of people groping their way towards a possible solution to the problem of edward ii rather than putting long standing cleverly formulated plans into action and finally another problem with the hindsight issue is that we know edward ii and isabella s marriage went badly wrong in the 1320s and therefore it s often written as though the entirety of it was a disaster and as though isabella always knew that it was going to end badly and was unhappy for every single minute of her marriage the ending of something colours people s opinions of the entirety of it so because their marriage went wrong this means that it must have been bad from the very beginning this is strange to me because surely we ve all had relationships that didn t work out does it mean that we were constantly unhappy throughout or that the relationship was doomed from the start when it comes to edward and isabella s marriage the narrative so often becomes almost childishly simplistic as though people only ever feel one emotion for their spouse of nearly twenty years and as though the complex relationship of two complex people can be reduced to edward neglected isabella and she hated him this issue bedevils writing on edward ii and his reign and has done for a very long time fourteenth century narrative accounts are much the same because with the notable exception of the vita edwardi secundi chroniclers of the era knew what happened to edward in 1326 27 and this awareness coloured their accounts of the earlier parts of his reign they knew and we know that edward was forced to abdicate and that his reign was one of the most unsuccessful in english history therefore his every action must have been unsuccessful or bad whereas the same actions carried out by other kings are portrayed much more neutrally one example i often talk about is the silly claim that edward ii stole isabella s three younger children and they re always referred to like that as though they weren t edward s children as well to punish her and cause her pain by contrast when edward ii s father edward i set up a separate household for his son thomas in early 1301 when the latter was only a few months old then thomas s brother edmund was sent to join him when he was less than half a year old this is reported neutrally as just the way things were in the medieval royal family writers don t dissolve into histrionics and take to their fainting couches over edward i cruelly stealing queen marguerite s tiny infants from her but because it s edward ii who was a bad king and a bad husband always all the time every moment of his life that means that everything he ever did was bad and wrong and he s judged harshly even when he did things that were entirely normal for his era and status posted by kathryn warner at 12 38 pm 26 comments email this blogthis share to x share to facebook share to pinterest 08 june 2023 john of lancaster early or mid 1280s 1317 edward ii s obscure cousin here s a post about edward ii s cousin john of lancaster although he was a grandson of henry iii king of england a great grandson of louis viii king of france the younger half brother of juana i queen regnant of navarre and queen consort of france and the uncle of edward ii s queen isabella and her brothers louis x philip v and charles iv of france john is rather obscure john was the third and youngest son of edmund of lancaster 1245 96 who was the younger son of henry iii and the only brother of edward i and his second wife blanche of artois c 1245 48 1302 dowager queen of navarre edmund and blanche s eldest son and heir thomas might have been born on 29 december 1277 or shortly afterwards and their second son henry his brother thomas s heir in 1322 and ancestor of all the later lancasters in c 1280 john of lancaster was born sometime before may 1286 when his paternal grandmother eleanor of provence henry iii s widow and the dowager queen of england bequeathed her claim to the county of provence to her three lancaster grandsons calendar of patent rolls 1281 92 p 243 edmund of lancaster earl of lancaster and leicester arranged the marriage of his second son henry to maud chaworth older half sister of hugh despenser the younger and sole heir of her late father the marcher lord patrick chaworth in december 1291 cpr 1281 92 p 464 in the usual oh so terribly romantic fashion of medieval arranged marriages john of lancaster was named as maud s substitute future husband in case his brother henry died john was the third son not the second as stated edmund died on 5 june 1296 the bulk of his vast estate went to his eldest son thomas though in august 1292 edmund had arranged for his four castles in wales plus the gloucestershire manors of rodley and minsterworth to pass to his second son henry thomas was named as heir to these estates if henry died without children with john as next heir calendar of charter rolls 1257 1300 p 423 the national archives dl 10 191 to my knowledge john of lancaster held no lands in england or wales though somehow and i m not sure how he acquired the french lordship of beaufort now called montmorency beaufort it s in the region of champagne between troyes and nancy and is 115 miles east of paris john s mother blanche of artois s first husband enrique i d 1274 was count of champagne as well as king of navarre and the county passed to john s half sister queen juana b 1273 countess of champagne in her own right a fact which presumably had something to do with john s acquisition of a lordship there john also appears to have held the lordships of soulaines bargencourt which probably means boulancourt and nogent l artaud or to be precise in 1329 his brother and heir henry wrote to king philip vi of france about goods which he owned in those places documents parisiens du règne de philippe vi de valois 1328 1350 extraits des registres de la chancellerie de france ed jules viard vol 1 pp 84 5 considering that when they were growing up the three lancaster brothers were nephews of the king of england and brothers in law of the king of france philip iv who married their half sister juana of navarre and champagne in 1284 and thus could hardly have been better connected their childhoods are almost completely obscure the household account in england of jan of brabant survives for a few months in 1292 93 he was the son and heir of jan i duke of brabant and married the lancaster brothers cousin margaret one of edward i s daughters in 1290 thomas and henry of lancaster appear several times in the account john of lancaster does not account of the expenses of john of brabant and henry and thomas of lancaster 1292 3 camden miscellany 1853 ed joseph burtt during the same time period thomas and henry are also mentioned several times as thomas and henry the sons of lord edmund in the extant account of their cousin edward of caernarfon but john is not it strikes me as highly likely that john of lancaster spent most of his life in his mother blanche of artois s native france and as he held lands there he might well have been born in france his brothers thomas and henry who inherited lands in england must by english inheritance law of the time have been born in england itself or in another of the territories ruled by the king of england unlike his two older brothers john married a french noblewoman she was alix de joinville youngest child of the chronicler and historian jean de joinville lord of joinville and his second wife alix daughter of the lord of reynel jean de joinville lived a remarkably long life he was born around 1224 or 1225 he was excused from fighting in the battle of taillebourg in 1242 as he hadn t been knighted yet and did not die until december 1317 i have no idea when alix de joinville was born but she likely wasn t too much older than john of lancaster and was probably born when her father was in his fifties her parents married in 1262 and her own first marriage to jean lord of arcis sur aube which is just twenty miles from john of lancaster s lordship of beaufort was arranged in 1300 jean d arcis sur aube died childless in 1307 the same year that john of lancaster s cousin edward ii succeeded john s uncle edward i as king of england alix de joinville herself died in or after 1336 and her brother anseau in 1342 or 1343 information from the medieval lands project on the foundation for medieval genealogy site john of lancaster s half sister juana i queen regnant of navarre queen consort of france and countess of champagne obviously knew alix s father jean de joinville she commissioned him to write a history of louis ix of france r 1226 70 who was her husband philip iv s grandfather and was also the great uncle of herself and her three lancaster half brothers their mother blanche of artois was the daughter of louis ix s brother robert count of artois it s possible therefore that john knew the joinville family via queen juana though juana can t have arranged his marriage to alix as she died in 1305 two years before alix s first husband jean d arcis sur aube john and alix de joinville were married by july 1312 when a grant made to the abbey of chapelle aux planches by jehans de lancastre sires de biaufort lord of beaufort et aalis de joinville is recorded alix is called john s loyal consort and wife sa loiaulx compaigne et espouse to put the date into context that s the month after piers gaveston beloved of john s cousin edward ii was killed in warwickshire and four months before john s niece isabella queen of england juana s daughter gave birth to the future edward iii a slightly later grant by john calling himself jehan de lancastre and his wife aalis de joinville is also extant it s interesting to see that he called alix by her maiden name not de lancastre or d arcis sur aube for her first husband mémoires de la société d agriculture commerce sciences arts du département de la marn e 1883 84 pp 151 2 on another 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