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Text of the page (random words):
ake not caring to mean that you had no contributions you wanted to make since blocks only prevent editing if you have no contributions to make there is no need to unblock you if you feel i have grossly erred here about this now expired 31 hour block haul me into wp ani 331dot talk 09 27 8 july 2023 utc reply what i feel is that you have a fundamentally flawed view of the proper way to exercise your authority i ve no intention of hauling you anywhere because my takeaway from the entire experience was that wikipedia itself has been corrupted i just logged on for the first time in 3 months and answered a message i found waiting for me from doug weller i m not even sure why you re talking to me given that i didn t message you ock raz talk 10 16 8 july 2023 utc reply doug weller linked to my username which sends a notification 331dot talk 10 18 8 july 2023 utc reply oh okay i noticed that there was a link in the response but i didn t know what it was for ock raz talk 10 34 8 july 2023 utc reply i don t have any authority just some tools again i m not sure what is unreasonable with thinking that you should have some desire to want to be unblocked and contribute if you don t care why should i 331dot talk 10 19 8 july 2023 utc reply i m not sure how having a tool that empowers you to affect what others are able to do is different from having authority but that s not important i think that the quickest way to make my point on the other matter is with an analogy imagine that a man has been arrested and charged with a minor crime for which he will likely be held in jail over the weekend since he can t pay the fine he s taken before a magistrate who will decide whether or not to find him guilty suppose that the accused appears distressed and says he doesn t care about the outcome of the hearing perhaps he s homeless and doesn t mind being in jail for a while would it be appropriate for the magistrate to decide on that basis that he will declare the accused to be guilty as charged there are multiple reasons why i think that would be inappropriate ock raz talk 10 35 8 july 2023 utc reply this was not a judicial proceeding and in most jurisdictions i am aware of if the accused does not offer a defense they are usually convicted not found not guilty this is a project to write an encyclopedia if a user is not concerned with their ability to contribute towards that project be it in general or just for the block duration i see no need to take action i m a volunteer i m not going to volunteer my time for those who don t particularly care about participating here this isn t a judicial proceeding where things like a criminal record play into it it doesn t make sense to me to be concerned about the application of policies rules if you aren t concerned with the project itself you were free to make another unblock request for someone else to review and possobly someone with a different philosophy might have come along and agreed with you though the short nature of that block reduces that chance 331dot talk 11 19 8 july 2023 utc reply i expect that my perspective does not make sense to you but nor does yours to me i m really not eager to argue at length about a block again i didn t send a message to you i was responding to a comment i found from someone else and asking what made my comment allegedly a personal attack as opposed to a criticism of your decision and why it was that this person was weighing in on the matter in the first place i will add a couple of things more though saying you don t care if you re penalized is very different from not offering a defense and both the analogy and the actual situation dealt only with the former and not the latter also you re obviously correct that we re talking about writing a reference work and not a literal judicial proceeding but that observation doesn t invalidate my analogy as you ve suggested there s a philosophical difference underlying what we think the proper framing is for the situation honestly i think that philosophical differences about how to contextualize disagreements would be a good description of what i think has led to a kind of corruption in the website although i haven t been logged on in the last three months i did speak to people about their opinions of wikipedia during that time a number of them said they had become frustrated and given up on editing ock raz talk 19 41 8 july 2023 utc reply well that s their choice to do they can either do that or stay and work to change the system to how they feel it should be i m guessing they don t want to volunteer their time to do that which is fine i m a volunteer too if there is a rule that says i cannot do what it is that i did please point it out i don t think there s one but i don t have every rule here committed to memory i could be wrong if you or anyone wants to impose a certain philosophy on me admins in general there are forums to discuss that again if you feel i have grossly erred here please open a discussion so i can be chastised i can take it and change saying we re corrupt is a misapplication of the word too often it s used to mean i disagree with what happens here and i don t think i can change it the latter part is not true you can change it but it takes work and time which is in short supply for us all as volunteers if people are frustrated i want to hear what that is and see if it can be alleviated or explained perhaps it can t be but this place has gotten by for many years with hundreds of thousands of editors okay for the most part because we figure out how to get along this place isn t really that hard there is nothing wrong with you thinking different than i or i from you but it s not corruption it s just different i m sorry to use your time i don t intend to bother you further i hope you have a good day 331dot talk 20 01 8 july 2023 utc reply re if you or anyone wants to impose a certain philosophy on me admins in general there are forums to discuss that i wasn t aware of that where would i find them re saying we re corrupt is a misapplication of the word it s not corruption it s just different i don t think it s that simple i would suggest that there s a relationship between how we judge what is corruption and how we think about racism for example suppose a more liberal person tells a more conservative person that he is taking part in racist behavior the latter would likely bridle at the idea thinking that this is an indictment of his personal choices and his character however if the former was thinking about participation in systemic racism then there s a mismatch between what the two of them are thinking and saying to each other similarly i m not using the term corruption to refer to deliberate individual acts of dishonesty but to systemic corruption which is a product of things like misaligned incentives and inconsistent application of vague directives i m not talking about conspiracies but about people with shared biases independently acting in a way that has the same corrosive effect as coordination would you may not like that characterization any better but i suspect it s different from what you had previously believed my claim to be i hope you have a good day too ock raz talk 22 32 8 july 2023 utc reply the village pump is probably the best place to discuss an idea and formulate offer a proposal i kinda think this has been blown out of proportion and i ve probably helped for which i m sorry if you had just said i made a mistake and i won t do it again i would likely have ended such a short block by saying you didn t care you misused the unblock request template which is for requesting to be unblocked there are ways to communicate something without requesting unblock if you have no interest in being unblocked i do evaluate claims on the merits when that is what is requested by your own admission you weren t and said you didn t give a f anyway i really have said too much i will not bother you further 331dot talk 23 29 8 july 2023 utc reply you misused the unblock request template i find that interesting such an interpretation hadn t even occurred to me i take it that your interpretation of my saying that i didn t care was that i had no preference as to whether or not i remained blocked that wasn t what i meant i legitimately wanted the block removed to some degree because i didn t want to lose the ability to make edits even more though it was because i felt it would leave a black mark on my record that could follow me and have some unknown negative impacts in the future what i was expressing by saying that i didn t care wasn t indifference to the penalty i was angry and expressing contempt for the overall process i don t want to rehash it all now but my perspective was that there were at least three rules principles that are supposed to be observed universally without needing to get consensus support but they were being ignored my arguing on talk pages that consensus was not necessary was deemed to be disruption that deserved punishment anyway my point is just that i thought it was absurd i didn t care about the judgment that would be made regarding the equivalent of an appeal to a guilty verdict because i thought that the underlying charge was ridiculous so i had a real desire to not get the penalty but i was saying that i didn t care about or have any regard for what i regarded as an absurd process if i had actually been saying i was as happy being blocked as not then i would see your point i think i agree with you that in those circumstances it would actually be a misuse of the unblock request ock raz talk 07 32 10 july 2023 utc reply hello a couple things one i would really appreciate it if you could take a moment to change your signature to user ockraz b style color purple ock b b style color black raz b sup user talk ockraz b style color green talk b sup it will look the exact same but will not create wp lint errors that other people have to clean up after two i am going to offer you an unsolicited view on the above exchange i am a fellow non admin which allows my approach to analysis to be entirely philosophical the sole reason we block people is to prevent further disruption let s say that bob was adding copyrighted materials to wikipedia and is subsequently blocked to stop further copyvios bob cares about being blocked he really wants to be unblocked if bob is unblocked he is unlikely to add more copyvios lest he be blocked again because bob would stop adding copyvio on his own he no longer needs to be forced to stop by way of a block thus it no longer serves a preventative purpose and the block can be lifted a corollary of this principle that blocked people who truly want to be unblocked are unlikely to repeat said behaviour is that people who do not care about what happens to their appeal are more likely to repeat the blockable behaviour and thus likely need to stay blocked to prevent further disruption i see why 331dot declined your unblock request he was not convinced that the alleged personal attacks would stop if unblocked note that i have not looked into any of the background besides this thread so i am not saying that you did personally attack someone nor am i saying that you did not in any event your appeal contained no evidence that you merely said a thing one doesn t like to hear so it likely would be declined on the merits too wishing you all the best house blaster talk 23 52 8 july 2023 utc reply 1 i think that is what my signature is currently i don t see a difference 2 i understand your argument to be that a person expressing a desire to be unblocked is more likely to cease to commit an offense that caused him to receive a block however my position was that i hadn t committed an actual transgression but i would file a formal protest to get it reversed even though i had no confidence that my appeal would get a fair hearing my saying that i didn t care was to express contempt for the process and that i didn t care about or value the judgment that the process would produce not that i was indifferent to being blocked or not i very much disliked the idea of getting blocked ock raz talk 06 55 10 july 2023 utc reply oh maybe i do see a difference is it about one way having a bunch of single quote marks in it is that what makes lint ock raz talk 07 46 10 july 2023 utc reply the new signature looks identical on purpose the issue with lint is not the what but the how the key difference is that the new one does not have any font font tags font tags have been obsolete since 2014 meaning that browsers parsers etc will eventually stop recognizing them properly i understand your perspective too house blaster talk 22 37 10 july 2023 utc reply okay i believe i ve made the change you requested ock raz talk 13 53 14 july 2023 utc reply arbcom 2023 elections voter message edit latest comment 2 years ago 1 comment 1 person in discussion hello voting in the 2023 arbitration committee elections is now open until 23 59 utc on monday 11 december 2023 all eligible users are allowed to vote users with alternate accounts may only vote once the arbitration committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the wikipedia arbitration process it has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve this includes the authority to impose site bans topic bans editing restrictions and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment the arbitration policy describes the committee s roles and responsibilities in greater detail if you wish to participate in the 2023 election please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page if you no longer wish to receive these messages you may add noacemm to your user talk page mediawiki message delivery talk 00 30 28 november 2023 utc reply orphaned non free image file uam bw png edit latest comment 1 year ago 1 comment 1 person in discussion thanks for uploading file uam bw png the image description page currently specifies that the image is non free and may only be used on wikipedia under a claim of fair use however the image is currently not used in any articles on wikipedia if the image was previously in an article please go to the article and see why it was removed you may add it back if you think that that will be useful however please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on wikipedia see our policy for non free media note that any non free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days as described in section f5 of the criteria for speedy deletion thank you b bot talk 18 25 1 december 2024 utc reply retrieved from https en wikipedia org w index php title user_talk ockraz oldid 1260609916 this page was last edited on 1 december 2024 at 18 25 utc page was rendered with parsoid text is available under the creative commons attribution 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