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commended pastor mark for his ability for damage control one commenter expressed a typical response thank you again mark for your humility and grace as a man myself i just want to thank you for being able to write better clarifications after bringing more attention to yourself than to christ i also appreciate the way that you obscured the problem women had with the post by not acknowledging them explicitly after all we men should lead by example thanks others also thanked mark for how he inspired them to disagree with others without worrying about the effects particularly toward women some even wondered how they could proclaim jesus and have a successful church like pastor driscoll without worrying about the harm it could have however women were particularly puzzled and ungrateful about how the pastor of mars hill church could respond so nonchalantly about their concerns complementarian women though were more encouraged by the seattle pastor s response one in particular remarked it just shows pastor mark s consistency in being the engaging humble guy we all know and love who cares if he was mediocore and alienating he s a complementarian another named daisy figured the controversy was exaggerated i don t understand what all the fuss was about anyways she said those disagreeable women just need to be more submissive and understanding or they can simply ignore him how hard is that even with a protest on the way pastor mark driscoll still seemed quite satisfied with his update on his blog he mentioned that it will help him continue to write sloppily because it gets him a reaction after all he noted if i had to improve my writing and avoid conflict with women i couldn t respond this way could i driscoll commends men for being so favorable to his clarification and hopes that they can avoid tempting situations that sabotage their ministry when asked how he will respond to the demonstration coming soon driscoll replied that he would welcome them while not changing anything substantial posted by jadon at 4 16 am 1 comments labels complementarian driscoll satire monday november 20 2006 unnecessary adversaries arguments in which both sides launch aggressive offenses and structure fortress like defenses can be unnecessarily adversarial i am not suggesting that such arguments have no place but let s acknowledge that their value is vastly over rated stories cover the same territory but they are testimonials and it is hard to argue with someone s testimony read more via jesus creed posted by jadon at 7 30 pm 0 comments labels complementarian egalitarian gender relations testimony theology friday november 17 2006 it could be worse right sure mark driscoll is a hard complementarian but at least he isn t this warning may strongly offend true posted by jadon at 4 00 am 0 comments labels complementarian obedience scandal emerging context essentially divisive this sort of division within the church isn t new but it is unique while folks have debated the role of women in ministry before this is version of that old debate is taking place in an emerging context it is interesting that most of those who have posted comments are talking about driscoll versus mclaren not the cbe versus grudem piper i used to be a complementarian now i am basically egalitarian though i have problems with the term once i would have said that the role of women in the church and within marriage was an essential issue like driscoll and others would argue i saw it as a sort of gateway doctrine that if eroded would lead to much more heinous doctrinal errors for a while i tried to put it in the unimportant pile now after years of struggle i see it again as an essential issue an issue of justice that cannot be ignored at one point i would have had hope that a discussion like the one you re suggesting could happen and be fruitful now i am of the opinion that the sort of christianity driscoll holds to is often fundamentally different than the sort that i hold to and while i don t think protesting is a worthwhile option i have profound doubts that interested parties would be able to sit down with one another for a meaningful discussion both sides of the debate see it as an essential issue but for completely different reasons both sides of the debate see the folks on the other side as the enemy perhaps the passages of scripture everyone involved should investigate aren t the ones that talk about the role of women nor the ones that say we should have unity instead we should all read the sermon on the mount particularly where it says we ought to love our enemy by mark van s in this post emphasis mine posted by jadon at 3 24 am 0 comments labels complementarian driscoll egalitarian fellowship grace theology thursday november 16 2006 hard complementarian fighting words his teaching may disempower women it may hurt emotionally it may lead to gifts given by god to the body of christ not being used to their full extent it may even lead to some women making choices in life to forgo education and live a life that is more hemmed in and constrained than necessary but none of these things bad as they are are abuse oppression or misogeny tragic yes misogeny no that having been said mark driscoll is a male chauvinist he frequently uses feminine as a derogatory his version of manhood is becoming more of a ridiculous charicature every day i have sat in the room with him and been told if your wife is working you are a selfish bastard how dare you make her shoulder her half of the curse and part of yours as well in addition to being erroneous theology it really really is this kind of talk has some far reaching consequences and communicates a lot of things that have the potential to really screw people up guys it s all on you perform women hold back don t shine too brightly mark is not a complementarian he s a hard complementarian who borders on a heirarchicalist he gives lip service i know he would say it s more but actions and outcomes speak louder than words to equal value of men and women but effectively negates this as he teaches a view of headship that has some women promising to obey in their wedding vows and seeking the covering of a fill in dad when theirs is unavaliable and they would like to date mark needs to smarten up and his elders need to kick his arse hard enough to help him smarten up he needs to re assess some of his views and soften how he presents others the elders of mars hill imho need to see at this point that mark s blog mark s comments and rants is are a net negative to their church community and they need to shut it down for the time being the best known church in the acts 29 network other than mars hill has left the organization in part in an effort to distance themselves from the blowback from mark s comments there are still personal friendships there to be sure but when people have to start organizationally moving away from each other that s a sign to me that something is amiss and it wouldn t surprise me if other a29 churches weren t moving in the same direction i ve said it before and i ll say it again mark is at a crossroads what i m seeing now is that a lot of people his entire church community and the leadership in particular are there with him as his apparent pride grows so does the danger the danger of his words hurting the danger of other emulating him and the danger when and if someone that big and that prideful takes a fall via bob blog ht tallskinnykiwi and from the comments the problem attitudes regarding women extend to the elder board of the church and in my opinion the purveyors of various complementarian materials such as the cbmw mark driscoll and leif moi do not produce new ideas they rehash without any tact or restraint ideas that are coming out the complementarian movement stating bluntly the things that are carefully veiled by more experienced speakers and writers i think mark driscoll is a very intense serious and sincere christian however he has a huge weakness in terms of his wayne grudem meets drunken frat boy attitude towards women it is his achilles heel and it will be his downfall if he cannot get it under control if the protests about his recent indiscretions provoke him to either rethink his attitude or restrain his expression of it or both then it will be the best thing that ever happened to him and mars hill posted by jadon at 4 10 am 0 comments labels complementarian driscoll scandal friday november 10 2006 mark mark mark mark driscoll and women via conversation at the edge posted by jadon at 3 19 pm 0 comments labels complementarian driscoll gender relations saturday october 28 2006 equal in being unequal in role exploring the logic of woman s subordination via kruse kronicle in this series posted by jadon at 4 56 pm 0 comments labels complementarian evangelical feminism friday october 06 2006 how equal is right from the article the marginalization of evangelical feminism by sally k gallagher ninety percent of american evangelicals believe in the ideal of husbands headship which for most involves being the spiritual leader in the household and having final authority in making decisions 80 and 53 percent respectively at the same time 87 percent believe that marriage should be a partnership of equals an attitude that is shared by mainline and theologically liberal protestants as well this blending of ideals of mutuality and hierarchy within marriage is characteristic of the majority of ordinary evangelicals only five to ten percent are consistently egalitarian or consistently hierarchical complementarians in how they describe their work and family lives the large majority emphasize partnership in decision making and the idea that husbands headship be demonstrated in service listening involved parenting and loving companionship gallagher 2003 given the influence of second wave feminism on gender norms within american culture and given the availability of a discourse of mutuality and partnership within evangelical subculture and given the pragmatic egalitarianism of most ordinary evangelicals the question remains why have the ideals advocated by evangelical feminists thus far failed to transform the culture of husbands headship among american evangelicals posted by jadon at 5 41 pm 0 comments labels complementarian egalitarian evangelical feminism evangelicalism older posts home subscribe to posts atom jadon s shared items subscribe to posts atom posts all comments atom all comments about me jadon reads the wittenburg door grad of dchs 90 intp heterosexual appreciates cross gender friendships view my complete profile general inquiry what is a hapax legomenon jadon definition followers my twitter my twitter follow me on twitter search this blog i m right now facebook me my poetry dis connected constancy constant reminder conviction familiarity fo u nd for getting for giving forsakened imagine kisses mourn fully no prisoners off tune peace priceless reconciled revisions sacrificed scarring 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