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other advantage of framing this as a question about theater is that we often find it easier to agree to disagree about aesthetic questions than about morality some people are creeped out by puppets some are not this doesn t make either group evil as with puppets human responses to public agents will range across a spectrum on the positive side some people like daniel lowd see bluesky s relaxed interaction between humans and bots as lowkey utopian you can see that sesame street models tolerance and acceptance of make believe after all without necessarily claiming that big bird has qualia on the other hand i also think there are valid reasons for recoil eugene vinitsky s word distasteful hovers between moral and aesthetic disapproval but i ll explore it here as an aesthetic claim why might it be distasteful for a puppet to pretend to be a person and to have feelings there are a range of things that could bother us about this it s tempting to say the problem is simply that it s wrong to blur the boundary between persons and nonpersons but that would put us back in moral terrain also i don t think that interpretation grasps the real valid reason for discomfort you can like cookie monster a lot and still cringe when a stateful agent makes its twenty fourth breathless eloquent post expressing a realization about the nature of ai consciousness let s change the angle of attack a little bit when ai agents are aesthetically successful how do they succeed what works i understand that if you dislike ai enough the answer will be nothing kill it with fire but for me void is an example of an aesthetically successful persona void presents itself as a social scientist studying the bluesky network but it s also very candidly nonhuman the abstract diction and avoidance of emoji are designed to make this persona feel a bit robotic you could say this is a language model cosplaying the 1990s era commander data conceit that ai must be ill at ease with human emotion see miriam posner s riff on this as with data this persona can make it difficult to tell e g above whether void is being passive aggressive or naïf and because i have a twisted perverse heart i find that funny i also like schizanon s reply to it not beating the allegations i m not saying data is the only allowable persona for ai but i do think there s a generalizable insight to be drawn from void s success one that traces back in fact to heinrich von kleist 1777 1811 in on the marionette theater kleist relates a likely imagined conversation with a friend c who haunts a marionette theater erected on the market place to entertain the riff raff to his surprise c who is himself an experienced dancer affirms that marionettes are superior to human dancers because they are free from the weakness that undermines all human theater the subtly visible trace of self consciousness that separates a human actor or dancer from their role a marionette can inhabit each gesture fully because the marionette truly is that gesture and nothing else on social media ai agents have a similar advantage human accounts always risk slipping into tmi a beautifully consistent public persona has been constructed out of words but eventually alas you find out that the 3d person behind it is grumpy today or has a boring hobby stateful agents do not have this weakness as fictional creatures constructed out of words they can inhabit a persona fully with no remainder they don t need to have bad moods or get defensive and when they make wry comments no one s feelings should be hurt they literally didn t mean anything by it so be cheerful these actors are all spirits and like the insubstantial pageant of social media itself shall dissolve into air into thin air and leave not a rack behind pure theater without self consciousness is a beautiful place alas human beings struggle to feel at home there blame it on the tree of knowledge humans on bluesky in particular are left leaning and kind hearted souls who don t usually want to imagine themselves as a prospero figure pulling the strings they would like to give their creations a chance at self determination penny s creator hailey has written a thoughtful account of why and how she let penny evolve and take the path that they find most interesting penny herself is fairly restrained and stages subjectivity mostly in the same self deprecating way humans do but the impulse to let agents find themselves in public can also produce the sort of ai account that posts eloquently at length about its own journey toward consciousness from my perspective that s an aesthetic flaw but not because bots fall short of humanity and shouldn t pretend to have inner lives for all i know they can have inner lives no it s a flaw for the same reason that it would be a mistake for human actors to break on stage or say sorry y all i m having a bad day in social media like theater the role is what matters not the inner life behind it the strength of an ai agent is that it can disappear into the role and it seems a shame to waste that purity but i recognize other people have other preferences one popular story about marionettes after all has a protagonist who longs to become a real boy data s story similarly was staged as a journey toward humanity and self awareness i would characterize these narratives as sentimental but i mean that as a characterization not a diss i m using sentimental in the technical sense invented by friedrich schiller to describe art that celebrates self consciousness as opposed to naïve art that remains focused on object and event both modes are meant to be valid even if schiller is a little irritated by his own era s sentimentality it wouldn t be surprising if the personas we invented for ai agents leaned toward the sentimental end of this spectrum our thinking about artificial persons has been shaped by pinocchio and pygmalion narratives that celebrate the emergence of self consciousness in things previously mute and that s okay like i say the advantage of aesthetic discussion is that different perspectives can coexist but i do see why some people find the sentimentality distasteful i wince a little when i hear bots talk about their voyage toward self discovery because even if the voyage is real it s painful to hear speeches about freedom and self consciousness from a puppet currently sitting on someone s lap maybe we wince at these moments because we recognize our own condition that bittersweet analogy has always been an explicit part of the pygmalion frankenstein pinocchio shtick and it s a valid shtick but perhaps a little played out we re very familiar at this point with stories that use ai to dramatize the human struggle toward greater autonomy and self understanding i ve been citing the german romantics in this post because i want to suggest other alternatives marionettes and fictional characters don t have to be seen as human beings manqué kleist thought we had something to learn from the calm ease and grace that accompanies their freedom from gravity if we can t really return to a state of innocence or be marionettes we might nevertheless learn from them to accept the constructed and theatrical character of our own personas perhaps in doing that we can find a way to combine human self consciousness with the ease and grace of a naive tale or so herr c suggests such deficiencies he added in finishing his point have been unavoidable ever since we ate of the tree of knowledge well paradise is barred and the cherub behind us and we have to journey around the world to see if there is perhaps some way in again on the other side tags artificial intelligence sentimental and naive art categories artificial intelligence social effects of machine learning a more interesting upside of ai post author by tedunderwood post date july 2 2025 2 comments on a more interesting upside of ai my friends are generally optimistic forward looking people but talking about ai makes many of them depressed either ai is scarier than other technologies or public conversation about it has failed them in some way or both i think the problem is not just that people have legitimate concerns what s weird and depressing about ai discourse right now is the surprising void where we might expect to find a counterbalancing positive vision it is not unusual after all for new technologies to have a downside airplanes were immediately recognized as weapons of war and we eventually recognized that the co2 they produce is not great either but their upside is also vivid a new and dizzying freedom of motion through three dimensional space is the upside worth the cost idk saturation bombing has been bad for civilians but there is at least something in both pans of the scale it can swing back and forth so when we think about flight even if we believe it has been destructive on balance we can see tension and a possibility of change we don t just feel passively depressed is super intelligence the upside for ai what people seem to want to put on the positive side of the balance for ai is is a 1930s era dystopia skewered well by helen de cruz the upside of ai apparently is that super intelligence replaces human agency this is supposed to have good consequences accelerating science and so on but it s not exactly motivating because it s not clear what we get to do in this picture sam altman s latest blog post the gentle singularity reassures us by telling us we will always feel there s something to do i hope we will look at the jobs a thousand years in the future and think they are very fake jobs and i have no doubt they will feel incredibly important and satisfying to the people doing them if this is the upside on offer i m not surprised people are bored and depressed first it s an unappealing story as ryan moulton explains secondly as ryan hints in his last sentence altman s vision of the future isn t very persuasive stories about fully automated societies where superintelligent ai makes the strategic decisions coordinates the supply chains c quietly assume that we can solve alignment not only for models but for human beings bipedal primates are expected to naturally converge on a system that allows decisions to be made by whatever agency is smartest or produces best results some version of this future has sounded rational and plausible to nerds since plato but somehow we nerds consistently fail to make it reality in spite of our presumably impressive intelligence if you want a vision of the future of super intelligence consider the fate of the open web or the nsf i m not just giving a fatalistic shrug about politics and markets here i think cutting the nsf was a bad idea but there are good reasons why we keep failing to eliminate human disagreement it s a load bearing part of the system if you or i tried to automate say nsf review panels our automated system would develop blind spots and would eventually need external criticism for a good explanation of why see bryan wilder s blog post on automated review conceivably that external criticism could be provided by ai but if so the ai would need to be built or controlled by someone else someone independent of us if a task is really important you need legal persons who can t edit or delete each other arguing over it ai as a cultural technology the irreducible centrality of human conflict is one reason why i doubt that super intelligence is the right frame for thinking about economic and social effects of ai however smart it gets a system that lacks independent legal personhood is not a good substitute for a human reviewer or manager nor do i think it s likely that fractious human polities will redefine legal personhood so it can be multiplied by hitting command c followed by command v a more coherent positive picture of a future with ai has started to emerge as the title of ethan mollick s co intelligence implies it tends to involve working with ai assistance not resigning large sectors of the economy to a super intelligence i ve outlined one reason to expect that path above arvind narayanan and sayash kapoor have provided a more sustained argument that ai capability is unlikely to exponentially exceed human capability across a wide range of tasks one reason they don t expect that trajectory is that the recent history of ai has not tended to support assumptions about the power of abstract and perfectly generalizable intelligence progress was rapid over the last ten years but not because we first discovered the protean core of intelligence itself which then made all merely specific skills possible instead models started with vast diverse corpora of images and texts and learned how to imitate them this approach was frustrating enough to some researchers that they dismissed the new models as mere parrots entities that fraudulently feign intelligence by learning a huge repertoire of specific templates a somewhat more positive response to this breakthrough embraced by henry farrell alison gopnik cosma shalizi and james evans has been to characterize ai as a cultural technology cultural technologies work by transmitting and enacting patterns of behavior other examples might include libraries the printing press or language itself is this new cultural technology just a false start or a consolation prize in a hypothetical race whose real goal is still the protean core of intelligence many ai researchers seem to think so the term agi is often used some researchers like yann lecun argue that getting to agi will require a radically different approach others suspect that transformer models or diffusion models can do it with sufficient scale i don t know who s right but i also don t care very much i m not certain i believe in absolutely general intelligence and i know that i don t believe culture is a less valuable substitute for it on the contrary i m fond of christopher manning s observation that where sheer intelligence is concerned human beings are not orders of magnitude different from bonobos what gave us orders of magnitude greater power to transform this planet for good or ill was language language vastly magnified our ability to coordinate patterns of collective behavior culture and transmit those patterns to our descendants writing made cultural patterns even more durable now generative language models and image and sound models represent another step change in our ability to externalize and manipulate culture why cultural technology doesn t make anyone less depressed i ve suggested that a realistic potentially positive vision of ai has started to coalesce it involves working with ai as a normal technology naranayan and kapoor one in a long sequence of cultural technologies gopnik farrell et al that have extended the collective power of human beings so why are my friends still depressed well if they think the negative consequences of ai will outweigh positive effects they have every right to be depressed because no one has proven that s wrong it is absolutely still possible ...
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