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w many years in advance that he was destined to be pm edward ii s reign and downfall have sometimes been written a bit like this as though certain special people who lived through it had knowledge of the future and their own important role in it it makes isabella of france and roger mortimer seem cunningly machiavellian to an extent that seems wildly improbable and implausible they don t make short term or fairly random decisions like normal people everything they do is planned years in advance and ten steps ahead of everyone else they have a global overview of everything that s going on and are able to manoeuvre everyone into position and edward ii and hugh depenser unwittingly fall into their cleverly laid traps at every turn and without knowing it do exactly what isabella and roger want them to do isabella and roger can t just react to events as they occur and make decisions based on the limited information they have at the time they are key players in a years long europe wide conspiracy to bring down the king of england and manage to communicate with their fellow conspirators across borders without leaving a trace on written record isabella can t just assuming she ever did this in the first place tell her father that her sisters in law have taken other men as lovers because she s worried that a non royal child might be foisted onto the french throne or because she s concerned about her brothers dignity and about her family s royal bloodline she has to be plotting her english son s possible accession to her french father s throne many years in the future another example is isabella s journey to france in march 1325 when she negotiated a peace settlement between her husband and her brother charles iv who had gone to war in 1324 it s entirely possible that she had some idea of using her sojourn in her homeland to improve the intolerable situation in which she found herself with hugh despenser the younger dominating edward ii s government and determined to sideline the queen as much as possible yet even here in the story as it s now often told isabella has to scheme and plot and manipulate everyone including pope john xxii to ensure that she does indeed get sent to france because in this narrative she s already in cahoots with roger mortimer and helped him escape from the tower because she s in love with him and conspiring with him to bring down her husband long before march 1325 she s secretly in touch with roger on the continent at least indirectly via intermediaries and is dying to join him there so they can continue to scheme against edward together get rid of him and subsequently enjoy the wonderful romantic relationship together that they know is their destiny while ruling england in her son s name and lo and behold edward duly falls into isabella s cunning trap and sends her to france without the faintest idea that his wife is plotting his downfall behind his back with her lover and has manipulated him into doing what she wants and that he s essentially digging his own grave gosh imagine six months later in september 1325 he unwittingly does the exact thing that isabella wants him to do yet again and sends his son to france as well to pay homage to charles iv because this is the vital next stage in the vast conspiracy between isabella roger mortimer the king of france the count of hainault the king of bohemia and who knows who else half of europe apparently who have nothing else to do but plot with an escaped english prisoner how to bring the king of england down for years on end at every turn in this narrative edward ii unknowingly acts against his own interests by doing exactly what his enemies who include his own wife though he has no idea of that either want him to do and are hoping that he will do a few years ago i wrote a post debunking the common idea that in september 1325 edward fell into a trap set for him by isabella who was hoping to get her son under her control to use him as a weapon against his father every option available to edward ii by that time was fraught with possible risk and whatever he did might ultimately have led to his deposition in one way or another if he had in fact gone to france instead of sending his son perhaps he would have been kidnapped or assassinated and historians would now be asking how he could have been so stupid as to travel to france himself when making his son duke of aquitaine and sending him instead would have been so much more sensible and would not have brought about his downfall or death they d probably be declaring that edward ii going to france in person was exactly what queen isabella and roger mortimer wanted him to do and that by doing so he fell into the trap they had laid for him and that they had intended for years to have him assassinated or kidnap him and force him to abdicate his throne once he made the stupid mistake of leaving england if only he had sent his son to france in his place he could have foiled their dastardly plans isabella of france and roger mortimer were both highly able and intelligent people certainly but it s as though they re omniscient narrators writing a story that no one else even knows they re part of and while all the other characters in the story wrongly think they have agency and are making their own choices they are in fact being controlled and manipulated at every stage it reminds me a bit of the way mahaut countess of artois the mother in law of isabella s brother philip v of france is written in maurice druon s accursed kings series of novels druon s fictional mahaut is a murderous über schemer bumping off philip s brother louis x and louis s days old posthumous son john i so that philip will become king of france and mahaut s daughter jeanne will be queen consort it s not that a baby who was only days old sadly though not terribly unsurprisingly died of natural causes in an age of horrifically high infant mortality no it s that mahaut poisoned him so his uncle would become king of france this take on things is essentially pointing to some random or fairly improbable event and claiming this particular person totally meant for that to happen and was responsible for it edward ii spent weeks changing his mind about who should travel to france to pay homage to charles iv himself or his son and no one could possibly have known beforehand who would turn up in paris because even edward himself didn t know until pretty well the last minute but isabella and roger totally planned the whole thing and had always known that edward of windsor not edward ii would be the one who stepped off the boat honest guv they did maybe all this scheming stuff makes a great fictional tale full of drama intrigue and murder but does it really bear much resemblance to the overwhelming majority of real human beings and how they behave modern writers often describe isabella of france as highly manipulative and sure the way she s been depicted in recent decades as someone who could foretell the future and was able to plot things nearly twenty five years in advance does make her look pretty darn manipulative but is that the real isabella though or a fictional character who s been given her name most people just muddle through they react to situations as they occur they make whatever decisions seem best at the time but which they might come to regret later or which might well prove to be disastrous decisions oh and another thing this whole hindsight issue somewhat reminds me of is the death of diana princess of wales and the endless conspiracy theories it spawned tragic accidents and bad things including car crashes sometimes also happen to celebrities but it s as though some people are special and should therefore be immune to random events and we must create some shadowy nefarious plot to explain their deaths another issue is that although it later became reasonably common for unsuccessful english kings to be deposed or forced to abdicate and subsequently executed or murdered in 1326 27 it had never been done before it was revolutionary the common modern assumption that lots of people both in england and on the continent planned for years in the 1320s to depose edward ii ignores the fact that there was no precedent for such a thing it s so easy for us centuries later to see what happened to richard ii in 1399 and henry vi in 1461 and 1471 and edward v in 1483 and charles i in 1649 and think ah yes it s pretty easy to get rid of a king look at all the times it s happened throughout english history therefore people during edward ii s era must also have known that it was pretty easy to get rid of a king but they didn t how could they how could roger mortimer in 1323 even conceive of the forced abdication of the king of england let alone imagine that he of all people might end up ruling the kingdom during the minority of that king s son events of 1326 27 tend to give the impression of people groping their way towards a possible solution to the problem of edward ii rather than putting long standing cleverly formulated plans into action and finally another problem with the hindsight issue is that we know edward ii and isabella s marriage went badly wrong in the 1320s and therefore it s often written as though the entirety of it was a disaster and as though isabella always knew that it was going to end badly and was unhappy for every single minute of her marriage the ending of something colours people s opinions of the entirety of it so because their marriage went wrong this means that it must have been bad from the very beginning this is strange to me because surely we ve all had relationships that didn t work out does it mean that we were constantly unhappy throughout or that the relationship was doomed from the start when it comes to edward and isabella s marriage the narrative so often becomes almost childishly simplistic as though people only ever feel one emotion for their spouse of nearly twenty years and as though the complex relationship of two complex people can be reduced to edward neglected isabella and she hated him this issue bedevils writing on edward ii and his reign and has done for a very long time fourteenth century narrative accounts are much the same because with the notable exception of the vita edwardi secundi chroniclers of the era knew what happened to edward in 1326 27 and this awareness coloured their accounts of the earlier parts of his reign they knew and we know that edward was forced to abdicate and that his reign was one of the most unsuccessful in english history therefore his every action must have been unsuccessful or bad whereas the same actions carried out by other kings are portrayed much more neutrally one example i often talk about is the silly claim that edward ii stole isabella s three younger children and they re always referred to like that as though they weren t edward s children as well to punish her and cause her pain by contrast when edward ii s father edward i set up a separate household for his son thomas in early 1301 when the latter was only a few months old then thomas s brother edmund was sent to join him when he was less than half a year old this is reported neutrally as just the way things were in the medieval royal family writers don t dissolve into histrionics and take to their fainting couches over edward i cruelly stealing queen marguerite s tiny infants from her but because it s edward ii who was a bad king and a bad husband always all the time every moment of his life that means that everything he ever did was bad and wrong and he s judged harshly even when he did things that were entirely normal for his era and status posted by kathryn warner at 12 38 pm 26 comments email this blogthis share to x share to facebook share to pinterest 08 june 2023 john of lancaster early or mid 1280s 1317 edward ii s obscure cousin here s a post about edward ii s cousin john of lancaster although he was a grandson of henry iii king of england a great grandson of louis viii king of france the younger half brother of juana i queen regnant of navarre and queen consort of france and the uncle of edward ii s queen isabella and her brothers louis x philip v and charles iv of france john is rather obscure john was the third and youngest son of edmund of lancaster 1245 96 who was the younger son of henry iii and the only brother of edward i and his second wife blanche of artois c 1245 48 1302 dowager queen of navarre edmund and blanche s eldest son and heir thomas might have been born on 29 december 1277 or shortly afterwards and their second son henry his brother thomas s heir in 1322 and ancestor of all the later lancasters in c 1280 john of lancaster was born sometime before may 1286 when his paternal grandmother eleanor of provence henry iii s widow and the dowager queen of england bequeathed her claim to the county of provence to her three lancaster grandsons calendar of patent rolls 1281 92 p 243 edmund of lancaster earl of lancaster and leicester arranged the marriage of his second son henry to maud chaworth older half sister of hugh despenser the younger and sole heir of her late father the marcher lord patrick chaworth in december 1291 cpr 1281 92 p 464 in the usual oh so terribly romantic fashion of medieval arranged marriages john of lancaster was named as maud s substitute future husband in case his brother henry died john was the third son not the second as stated edmund died on 5 june 1296 the bulk of his vast estate went to his eldest son thomas though in august 1292 edmund had arranged for his four castles in wales plus the gloucestershire manors of rodley and minsterworth to pass to his second son henry thomas was named as heir to these estates if henry died without children with john as next heir calendar of charter rolls 1257 1300 p 423 the national archives dl 10 191 to my knowledge john of lancaster held no lands in england or wales though somehow and i m not sure how he acquired the french lordship of beaufort now called montmorency beaufort it s in the region of champagne between troyes and nancy and is 115 miles east of paris john s mother blanche of artois s first husband enrique i d 1274 was count of champagne as well as king of navarre and the county passed to john s half sister queen juana b 1273 countess of champagne in her own right a fact which presumably had something to do with john s acquisition of a lordship there john also appears to have held the lordships of soulaines bargencourt which probably means boulancourt and nogent l artaud or to be precise in 1329 his brother and heir henry wrote to king philip vi of france about goods which he owned in those places documents parisiens du règne de philippe vi de valois 1328 1350 extraits des registres de la chancellerie de france ed jules viard vol 1 pp 84 5 considering that when they were growing up the three lancaster brothers were nephews of the king of england and brothers in law of the king of france philip iv who married their hal...
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