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ant to consider reading boundaries and changes that heal by drs henry cloud and john townsend you might also look at leslie varnick s the emotionally destructive relationship i m recommending these books for both the wounded survivors out there and the pharisees who call me a pharisee for warning others and for the blind and devoted defenders of driscoll s the latter probably won t check into these wonderful resources though too bad so sad i m slightly only slightly apologetic for my apparent attitude in that last bit but i am tired major surgery 2 months ago and having recently found myself in the position of needing to leave a church i had begun to grow fond of not because of spiritual abuse but because of spiritual stupidity people were encouraged over and over again to just let go and let god to leave it in the lord s hands to leave your past behind you you re a new creature to keep hoping praying for that miracle to let god break depression off of you and to let god deliver you from addiction meanwhile from what i could hear these people were not being encouraged to be responsible and to take the steps toward their own healing process to work with god work out your own salvation sanctification healing with fear and trembling for it is god who works in you to will and to do of his good pleasure these people were not encouraged to seek counseling and to join 12 step or celebrate recovery groups after a time it was so clear to me that most of these people were not just getting zapped by god despite holding on to the promises but were remaining stuck in their woundedness and their sinful dysfunctional patterns i saw aspects of this bizarre behavior belief system even from the beginning of my sojourn there but it took awhile to see how pervasive this was and how entrenched that church culture is in bible only theology bible only for everything i need to emphasize here that i love god s word and i believe everything must submit to god s word including philosophies ideologies psychological theories etc nevertheless bible only does not work for many things in life including but not limited to brain surgery fixing your leaky roof developing good nutrition and exercise plans healing from adultery attaching well with our spouse and children healing from trauma recovering from depression and or anxiety disorders etc the bible simply does not have everything we now know about physiology stress brain research and healthy psychology the bible does not even contain everything the apostles and disciples knew and experienced of jesus see gospel of john last chapter sigh ah well i need to get going see this is why i stay away from this site it s time consuimg and then i get going on all this and the ideas flow as i type along thanks for reading and posting may gal 5 1 be yours it was for freedom that christ set you free therefore stand fast and do not be subject again to a yoke of bondage freedom posted in uncategorized 17 comments 46 new direction for freedom october 28 2009 by freedom4captives freedom 4 captives is taking a new turn i m in the middle of launching my own business and so i do not have much time and energy for this but more importantly i feel that i ve been obedient to the lord in speaking out the truth about that which was presented to me regarding apparent church spiritual abuse at mars hill mostly at the hands of the lead pastor mark driscoll i was responsible for the information given to me i have made that known to you here on this blog for me to go further would entail my policing driscoll which i m really not interested in doing driscoll will continue to be driscoll meaning he will continue to be the driscoll who until i am informed otherwise appears to be abusing god s flock and setting up a system over which he can rule as supreme that is my take based on my perceptions of driscoll s behaviors his words and apparent attitudes toward women and people in general until driscoll falls on his knees weeping and repenting before the throne of grace and until he allows the biblical jesus our only true healer of our broken hearts to reach down and do a deep healing within him he will continue to act out of his own pain his own suppressed and repressed traumas i pray for that day i pray for mark dan 12 10 reads many will be purified made spotless and refined but the wicked will continue to be wicked none of the wicked will understand but those who are wise will understand when we are ruling over a church in the spirit of those false shepherds whom god condemned in ez 34 we are not pleasing god we are not evidencing christ nor his spirit in our lives we are not leading as jesus leads and instructs us to lead but rather we have become like the gentiles lording it over one another seating ourselves in moses seat this kind of dictatorship similar to that which i perceive in driscoll and in mars hill is flat out condemned by god in scripture over and over again my point is that there are many driscolls in the world as well as many of those who are on the polar opposite of driscoll s legalism preaching liberal heresies and all of these will continue doing what they re doing but those who submit to the lord and to his word living by his spirit must continue doing so following and obeying the lord in true holiness despite what others are choosing to do 2 tim 3 13 14 but evil men and impostors will proceed from bad to worse deceiving and being deceived you however continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of i invite any of you who happen upon or who have been tracking this site to please keep me informed if you know of any new important issues or spiritual church abuse or false teaching at mars hill make a comment here or anywhere else in this blog and please cite the source of your information i d like to keep this blog up to date so people can be informed but i no longer feel the call nor the need for me personally to keep track on mark this blog as it stands is enough i would hope for the wise and wary to do their own research and think twice about committing themselves to what looks to be a very controlling and cult like church system led by what seems to be a spiritually immature despot compare driscoll to 1 tim 3 and well to jesus rev 22 11 12 let the one who does wrong still do wrong and the one who is filthy still be filthy and let the one who is righteous still practice righteousness and the one who is holy still keep himself holy behold i am coming quickly and my reward is with me to render to every man according to what he has done in christ and in his glorious truth and love freedom posted in mars hill church tagged abuse of pastoral authority authoritarianism church abuse controlling pastors controlling personalities cult like churches mark driscoll mars hill church spiritual abuse 13 comments 45 mind control october 14 2009 by freedom4captives steve martin has written a fascinating book the heresy of mind control for those in the helping fields and for all of us who have been or are being traumatized and enslaved by an abusive person pastor therapist priest husband boyfriend doctor lawyer employer etc or an abusive system group totalitarian government terrorists church employment eventually i will post on this when i have my notes completed for now though here is steve s outline he sent me you may purchase his book at his website www recognizeheresy com freedom ps there seems to be a problem with the formatting from the document steve sent me to transferring it into this post please understand steve had logical formatting and will tend to this little quirk when he has time in the meantime the info is there and one can learn more about his book by going to his site and better yet by ordering it the heresy of mind control recognizing con artists tyrants and spiritual abusers in leadership by stephen martin ________________________________________________________________________ introduction just suppose taken in unawares what is a cult terrorist groups cults and abusive relationships in unexpected places the meeting ground of psychology sociology and theology the focus of this book characteristics not certain groups format summary and paraphrase of criteria various examples scripture passages that address and oppose these cultic practices chapter 1 thinking inside the box milieu control the need for outside input overcoming hindrances cunning disregard have nothing to do with them don t listen overcome closed mindedness chapter 2 illusion to disillusion mystical manipulation visions and revelations stories euphoria inducing techniques power and the sense of higher purpose misguided devotion submitting to abuse submitting to exploitation chapter 3 getting nowhere fast the demand for purity amount of work and commitment amount of your ability works vs grace attributing sin reach maturity now man made rules for escaping impurity chapter 4 vocal self degradation the cult of confession a misused bible verse everyone else is doing it no win situations no privacy no restoration no encouragement demon labels misplaced accountability restoring self esteem chapter 5 thou shalt not question the sacred science the fear to disagree and to criticize the power of charisma freedom to doubt consequences of differing fear to speak out the slant on slander dealing with the wrongs of leaders what about obedience and respect why question and doubt chapter 6 the language of nonthought loading the language shut out the truth alienate from outsiders create guilt to suppress thought create guilt to produce dependence emphasize agreement unity more than truth control of behavior to label hurt judge and condemn manipulating the bible the remaining wounds from loaded language chapter 7 fitting the rigid mold doctrine over person freedom to be ourselves the remolding process your feelings your history your health your experiences and circumstances predictions that fail denial and suppression narrowing the playing field different needs different treatments leading by gentleness the priority of human well being chapter 8 the elitists the dispensing of existence what about christianity itself we vs they is salvation found in a group the same claims of the only ones epilogue from control to freedom appendix 1 comments on visions appendix 2 therapeutic confessions appendix 3 pros and cons of an accountability partner pros cons other comments appendix 4 what is faith appendix 5 how will god deal with those who have never heard about jesus posted in mars hill church tagged abuse of pastoral authority authoritarianism church abuse controlling pastors cult like churches mark driscoll mars hill church mind control spiritual abuse teaching on submission the sin of questioning trauma survivors 1 comment 44 simplistic reductionism freedom4captives solely about gender issue september 2 2009 by freedom4captives i received the following comment under 43 my response became quite involved so i wanted to create a new post covering some of mr nater s challenges and opinions his comment is in italics my response follows a lot of beef seems to be over marks complimentarianism and your apparent egalitarianism isn t there room for humility over such a difficult issue do we really need to fight dirty over the complimentarian vs egalitarian debate reality is that each side is deeply emotionally intrenched on the issue and so are you i say this because this article is very much antithesis you do a thoughogh job at marks statements but you do not substantiate your own perspective your perspective is only painfully obvious to people to those who already believe what you do in this case you are not changing anyones mind you are just flaming the fires of hate between disciples of jesus sure i understand criticism is ok but when it is everything then its slavery why don t you build a case for egalitarianism why not treat the discussion fairly and intelligently why don t you build a case for your view instead of polarizing bullying and fear mongering ironically becoming what you accuse mark of being right sure you can get a lot of web traffic by tearing down a popular church but its no better than those awful youtube conspiracy video s god has used both egalitarian and complimentarian churches to advance his kingdom by all means we have a right to this important internal debate but if it consumes us and consumes this website what do you have disciples fighting disciples mr nater if i understand you correctly you seem to be suggesting that i and others like me need to have humility over a difficult issue by humility in this context i am wondering if you might mean something like being quiet and gentle non assertive non challenging non confronting this along with other things you have written informs me that you are perhaps a bit confused as to the issue here we are talking about what looks like very serious abuse at mars hill church abuse of god s people see post 14 cult like spiritual abuse issues by laws in a nutshell and 30 driscoll s questionable words behaviors and 34 is mark driscoll verbally and emotionally abusive and abuse of god s precious daughters especially have you not read mr nater the crude derogatory and disdainful things driscoll has said about women which i ve posted here on this blog see post 8 christian taliban christian women donning berkas spiritual warfare series wherein driscoll states that women are the weaker vessel and are therefore the more easily deceived that women are busybodies and gossipers that ministry goal oriented women are manipulators controlling and drama queens and that they are influenced by satan if they want to marry a pastor and that women s ministries are cesspools of gossip also see post 37 mark driscoll is he qualified to lead wherein he is quoted most people thought mary mother of jesus concocted the crazy story of her pregnancy to cover the fact she was knocking boots with some guy in the back seat of a car at the prom and a naked lady is good to look at so get a job get a wife ask her to get naked and look at her instead and driscoll described a young man in his church as a chronic masturbator a porn addict banging weak willed girls like a screen door in a stiff breeze am i to have humility about this while thousands of young twenties are being deceived demeaned and held in bondage driscoll does not keep his apparent abuse directed at the women in his congregation only he lashes out at the men under his care as well see 33 driscoll rants at abusers abusively in my opinion driscoll is behaving like an immature dictator the more i learn of what he is up to the more disgusted i become there is no other word for it disgusted well and deeply grieved driscoll has taken on a role never assigned to anyone in the new testament and he is abusing god s children in that man made role jesus called them together and said you know that the rulers of the gentiles lord it over them and their high officials exercise...