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further parse a distinction between discourses of consumption and consumers themselves since the former can be understood to recruit and transform individuals into particular kinds or classes of people as consumers in this instance but cannot describe the latter absolutely certainly these discourses produce and reproduce the meanings and values which represent the relationships we imagine we have to our real conditions of existence and which might take the form of the moral decision making you note above but moralism which wendy brown actually distinguishes from morality and dubs anti politics is not the same as ethical or political inquiry and i would further caution against conflating moral and aesthetic judgments with political and psychological ones and against blurring consumption practices and their consequences for the logic of capital or homogeneous time with the feelings or politics of individuals who engage in these practices this is to say that it is not necessarily false to make this connection but not necessarily true either minh ha i get that the temporal trajectory and logics of thrift vintage aren t the same as fashion but i m not convinced that thrift vintage is the feminist answer to fashion consumption and adornment that silverman makes it out to be that view presumes that fashion is inherently anti feminist it also demands that we have a nostalgic relation to the past here i m thinking about her assertion that retro provides a means of salvaging the images that have traditionally sustained female subjectivity images that have been consigned to the wastebasket not only by fashion but by orthodox feminism but for which female subjects are these past images and past fashions sustaining and which thrifted fashions enable this certainly not the h m f21 or old navy cast offs this idealized past is a distinctly whitewashed past as you so aptly point out in in vintage color and while i love your idea that women of color in vintage styles can enab le us to correct this historical absence and imagine otherwise we can only correct the past by establishing a different relation to it from the present this isn t historical temporal borderlessness it s a position that s firmly situated within even if or rather because it s in dialectic opposition to the dominant logic of linear progressive time the valorization of vintage as postmodern historical borderlessness doesn t take into account that borderlessness is a privilege only white bodies enjoy even in vintage and thrifted fashions even the light dresses in minh ha s closet and this is pretty much all of them are full of pleats draping fans and shiny detail goodness the first dress looks as guileless as a shift dress but it s the infamous geisha mimi i haven t read silverman s fragments of a fashionable discourse in several years but i want to point out that it was published in 1986 and was one of the first essays to attempt to craft a feminist fashion studies so i would approach its theoretical project on its own speculative terms furthermore secondhand clothing as a whole circulated at a much more subterranean level of the market at that time as angela mcrobbie documents secondhand clothed the poor but also the weirdos so i can t fault silverman for failing to predict the incorporation of one aspect of secondhand clothing as vintage into fashion s industrial self replication as such i read her more generously as encourag ing the critical recognition that we need not adhere to linear progressive time and consign the past to the wastebasket as useless or worse which is a form of historical consciousness that both fashion and some of our critical discourses often demand this recognition need not be nostalgic and i don t believe that nostalgia is necessarily a conservative impulse let alone idealizing for either silverman in particular at least in the above excerpts or secondhand clothing in general again the backwards glance can be conservative in some instances witness some of the comments at the sartorialist s photograph of his besuited black driver but it can also be something else so it seems to me that the vintage loving women of color at fashion for writers b vikki and renegade bean are not just salvaging the past as historical object but also creating alternate and possibly antichronological images about that past that allow it cohabit with us in the present i m thinking also of lipstickeater joon oluchi lee s maternamorphosis in which he considers how he might honor his mother s complex personhood through a reconsideration of her personal style with his t here is no reason to assume that there is a singular temporal sensibility to thrifting or to vintage let alone one set of practices values or feelings attached to them and here i want to reemphasize that while thrift and vintage are not discrete categories they are definitely not the same silverman s secondhand salvaging is one possible approach that might allow us to revisit the past for its pleasures or to transform that past into something other than waste or debris for instance when i read about those images that have traditionally sustained female subjectivity i think of queer femmes revisioning the past s femininities but the essay does not claim it acknowledges that it is a series of fragments that this is all there is fash ion and style bloggers featuring young women who triumphantly thrift sometimes pairing their finds with chloe shoes and alexander wang tanks are a tiny eensy weensy minority of thrift shoppers thrifting is also a rational form of consumption as reproductive labor clothing families for instance or as class performance secondhand ann taylor can still project a professional look or h m a trendy one but it s important to note that thrift also still does bear economic and social stigma because it is used or otherwise perceived as trash even in the age of goodwill on line auctions and the occasional recession news piece on smart shopping furthermore its social and economic significance extends to the geopolitical our so called trash is conceived as good enough for global others thrift is the backbone of an enormous secondhand clothing export industry that clothes the global south in the throw aways of the global north and furthers the decline of local textile and clothing manufacturing but it can also fuel local practices of creative reuse in those same places in any case we shouldn t limit an analysis of thrifting or vintage to its radical potential or lack thereof of course we cannot escape capital or its disciplinary time through thrift thrift is possible because of capital and the production of surplus it even produces new forms of labor from professional sellers to exporters and so on but not all relations to capital are the same minh ha i totally agree that there s no singular temporal sensibility to thrifting or to vintage and that s actually my point i have no problem with thrifting or vintage as such obviously my problem is with the easy and sometimes automatic celebrations of thrifting as a superior more innovative and more progressive mode of consumerism i d feel the same way about any form of moralizing when it comes to consumerism and we ve certainly talked about this before only some thrifting bodies and styles are read as creative hip modern innovative others are perceived as tacky ghetto and cheap these designations don t always cut across race and class differences but neither do they transcend them mimi yes absolutely thrift does not cohere as a set of practices and discourses as one of my students roseanne o demonstrated in her thrift store ethnography this last semester even in the same town at the same chain there are clear distinctions between the different locations that imagine distinct consumers and needs at the salvation army closest to campus there is an ugly sweater rack for all the students purchasing these as novelties for themed parties similar sweaters are not separated at the store that serves the non students and that is located in the same building that provides other services to low income or homeless persons and because bodies and clothes interact and activate certain ideas about each the other the same sweater on a college student going to a themed party is funny because it is outdated and on a young fashion blogger pairing it with leggings is innovative because it is renewed and on an older woman imagined as its appropriate owner the sweater will be just unfashionable because supposedly so is its wearer sorting out our wardrobes mimi okay i want to segue into talking about your shopping for a bit here when we hung out with the amazingly lovely joony schecter you mentioned that you love the frenzy of the sample sale in contrast to the frenzy of a thrift store to me it sounds like a nightmare all the yelling from thuy linh and i feel like i would be the hapless fit model slash load bearing boyfriend for you both in this scenario don t deny it minh ha i m too thrifty to want to spend even that much at a discount or maybe because i think about how i could buy ten different dresses for the price of one as a general rule spending more than a hundred dollars on one garment still freaks me out though i gladly did it for the puffy coat i m now forced to we ar in midwestern winters and i m learning that warm winter boots are going to cost me but this is also about how i get dressed in the morning because sometimes i want to become a 1958 girl scout summer camp arts and crafts teacher or a 1976 lower east side dissolute rock n roller or a 1983 midwestern professional lady newscaster and sometimes my sartorial moods are cinematic or televisual and i want to capture a particular character or production s sensibility nicki in time square diana prince in second or third season wonder woman billie jean in the legend of billie jean the more options i have for putting these personas and their accompanying narratives together the better this potential is just one part of the appeal of secondhand clothes for me another related part is my pu nk past populated with awesome and creative persons who were unafraid to play with their clothes to create a mood or a confrontation and on a purely sensual level i love certain patterns and textures that i can t otherwise find like 50s abstract expressionism on a full skirt or couldn t otherwise afford what with all the so called legit designers liberally plundering those archives themselves therefore my grass green scratchy burlap shift dress with the kelly green piping and rolled neckline which seems so genius to me the dress i love with pockets at the lower upside down v clashing with a thrifted print in my office closet which is painted the green in the print so how do you understand your own preferences shopping wise and in terms of how you get dressed in the morning is there a politics to the sample sale the sample as both limited supply but also surplus minh ha yes thrift stores often but not always feel like a labyrinth of hyper and multi sensory hodgepodge to me you mentioned once that you thought my unease in thrift stores had to do with the various prints and textures and i think you re probably right whether i m shopping online more and more these days or in a brick and mortar shop my eye is always drawn to solid blacks grays and what i d describe as steel blue or bluish gray just thinking about that color s uch a perfect color i mostly wear dresses because they re all in one this is the same reason i ve grown to love jumpsuits and rompers and dresses with some architectural detail are my soft spot i have a black alexander wang dress that i got at a sample sale with thuy who else that has futuristic shoulders and has a poof between the shoulder blades interesting and complicated pleats are also a favorite for me while i don t dress in personas like you do my style isn t quite utilitarian either there s a 3 1 phillip lim dress i bought from lagarconne com that s only good for standing the website makes me feel as warm and fuzzy as the phillip lim store on mercer in nyc the tulip shaped skirt on this dress is so narrow that when i walk i m doing the geisha so not my stylo that s not to say i don t wear the dress but when i do i m pre scheduling the pace of my life that day so rather than channeling any persona i m making decisions about how i want to move through my day and what kind of attitude i want to project harder or not so hard i don t do soft which i associate with pastels and it s all probably too subtle for anyone to notice i mean my color palette is really focused at this point but it s all in the details baby i want to just say a little something about price tolerance and i think this connects to a couple of different points we ve already raised about the overlapping spheres of fashion and the politics of sample sales i don t know anyone who is completely faithful to any single mode of shopping i love the rush and sociality of sample sales strangers being each other s eyes when there s only one full length mirror snagging the only dress in your size having a dress that may never see the light of retail etc so if i had to choose only one mode of consumption it would probably be sample sale shopping still there are things that i d prefer to buy at mass market cheap chic sites the classist dimension of fast fashion puts me off that term tops and jeans for example why i m psychologically incapable of spending more than 40 on a top is something i m still working out and who needs to spend 150 on denim when uniqlo carries great denim for 30 19 on sale on the politics of sample sales god this should be it s own post to start though the term is becoming an increasingly elastic one for retailers sample sale can mean a pop up sale that a designer has to gauge the interest in particular designs before they re released to mass retailers for instance i remember going to the nieves lavi sample sale a couple of years ago it was held for one night in the designer s girlfriend s apartment in chelsea the designer and his partner were there too these are the kinds of sample sales i prefer the stock is limited sometimes only 1 or 2 items in any size are available but it s edited intimate and manageable unlike corporate multi designer sample sales like billion dollar babes or the barney s warehouse sale which seems to be more about discarding excess product is scheduled a couple of times every year is open to industry insiders or those willing to pay a cover charge for the first 1 or 2 days and is something like a mosh pit of frantic shoppers and anxious sales staff the pop up ephemeral scheduling and online sample sales like gilt use this model too certainly capitalize on consumers desire for distinction but i would argue that this form of distinction isn t only about class pretensions but also about the social capital of insider knowledge informed consumption and sometimes just the luck of being in the right place at t...